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Discussions --Lead Up to Talks & US Military Intervention Against Iran Nuclear Facilities Threatened When Talks Fail

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Drawn the line to the Turkish Iranian border also add the jet stream +350 is no joke.
Um, you do understand that you can't just willy-nilly overfly any country you want on your bombing run, unless they agree to it - which automatically makes them parties to the conflict - and that sending armed aircraft into another country's airspace without their permission (even if said countries are nominally your allies) is, at best, a provocation, and, at worst, an act of war?

In 2015 Turkey shot down a Russian jet that grazed its airspace. And Turkey is as much frenemies with Russia as it is with the US.
 
Also, the topic of the disussion is "convenient airbases from which to launch airstrikes against Iran", not "how to get from America to Europe"
You are correct.

I added Europe because I fly from somewhere (B-1 TX, B-2 Mo. B-52 LA & ND) to Turkey (Europe side) then east to my launch sites, west on egress and down in Turkey only if MAJOR malfunction or damage (I want to be anywhere else that is NATO (probably Vincenza Italy. If you’re looking it’s near Verona, Large NATO airbase. But YMMV. Then over the med to refuel although Spain is usually super permissive and NATO friendly (middle finger to 🇫🇷) then over the Atlantic and refuel (“you only have too much gas when you are on fire”. It’s cute but actually not correct for two reasons: one, you’re burning jet. Two, empty tank explode, full tank burn. )
then we are headed to the Bayou or the Badlands (possible Mo, TX is same initialing heading as BAD.

The trip west from the east is like you envisioned.
 
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I understand Turkey is NATO, but they have just officially declared that they oppose any US airstrikes (source), so I don't think it's happening as of right now. They're probably worried it would strengthen Bibi's hand, and if there's one country Erdogan despises even more than Iran, it's Israel.

Whether Ankara could be goaded into joining this war is an open question - though given the current US administration's track record on diplomacy, I'm not getting my hopes up.
 
Most people who haven't left their home don't know about aero-industry flight paths.
I've flown from Europe to America and back dozens of times. Never so much as glimpsed Greenland. It should be noted, however, that the military doesn't care about civilian corridors (i.e. "aero-industry flight paths").

But we're splitting hairs. Of course we're all familiar with great circle routes, jetstreams etc.
 
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Um, you do understand that you can't just willy-nilly overfly any country you want on your bombing run, unless they agree to it - which automatically makes them parties to the conflict - and that sending armed aircraft into another country's airspace without their permission (even if said countries are nominally your allies) is, at best, a provocation, and, at worst, an act of war?
Yes WE CAN and quite often do. And IF you’re in a B-2 no one will know (Ha). Seriously ALL of Europe INCLUDING Poland and Turkey are NATO. (Those two are hard way point in this discussion)

There are a few crappy ass shitholes south of that line of flight that are non-permissive but they don’t matter, not even a little bit.

As far as European overflight, I think I covered that with “Spain is usually super permissive and NATO friendly (middle finger🇫🇷) ”
 
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I've flown from Europe to America and back dozens of times. Never so much as glimpsed Greenland. It should be noted, however, that the military doesn't care about civilian corridors (i.e. "aero-industry flight paths").

But we're splitting hairs. Of course we're all familiar with great circle routes, jetstreams etc.
You are absolutely correct. Especially civil/military air operations. Although they usually use Iceland Greenland as divert locations (engine out, other serious emergencies) the military will put right over frozen Ice floes on your way to Iran in the summer. “Fun fact” hottest place on earth is speculated to be in Iran. The hottest place on earth certified is in the United States. And we’re both fixing to try to kill each other. Is there a connection? I doubt it. Like I said “fun fact”, moving on)
 
When was the last time the USAF overflew any European country on an actual bombing run (i.e. not training)?
Define “bombing run”

We overfly all of North America and Western Europe carrying hate mail every day. Most is just in case, also every time a training or security flight lands at some inconvenient place, given time and facilities, ordinance is offloaded and locally cache.

You can build up thousands of metric shit tons of ordinance much closer to your targets in the space of a few decades. Pretty much everywhere outbound they don’t just send cargo planes unless the bombers are busy. The rest of the time the bombers are delivering too.
 
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of U.S. goals in the Middle East though. The United States doesn’t achieve a lot because fundamentally it chooses to not do so. The U.S. focuses on avoiding civilian casualties and not taking many casualties as a result we fight with hands tied behind our backs. When we take the gloves off you get desert storm. As for Afghanistan which everyone loves to point to the whole goal of being there was to help train the Afghans to be able to control their own country the problem is when push came to shove they didn’t want to fight. Thats why the U.S. left because there was no point in us being there indefinitely when their own people weren’t willing to fight. If you give the United States military a defined objective with the resources at their disposal they will achieve it. If you say go here and stabilize the region but you can’t bomb a large portion of targets, we’ll tell you when we think you’ve acheived the objective, and you’ll be here until then with no set deadline then no military on the planet will satisfy public opinion and they will eventually get burnt out. If the United States has a set goal that they will destroy the Iranian nuclear weapons program and the government takes the gloves off and lets them do whatever it takes they will do it, especially with someone like Trump in office who I can guarantee will not care if it gives the US a bad name when there are civilian casualties.
Thankyou plenty of replies yet no answer to question.???🤣😂🤣
 
Define “bombing run”
Why, is that a confusing term? Okay, fine: dropping something with the intention of ruining someone's day.

Last time I can recall was 1995, during the Kosovo campaign. That's a generation ago. And this was done in the framework of NATO, so in coordination with European allies.

Since you claim that the USAF (or USN, as the case may be) "quite often" overflies foreign countries on bombing runs (as above) without their permission - I'm asking you to provide specific examples.
 
When was the last time the USAF overflew any European country on an actual bombing run (i.e. not training)?
Turkey seems to get that a lot. Italy is a nato gas stop going anywhere. But since NATO was bombing Serbia there hasn’t been any wars in Europe. Iraq could be a pain in the ass to get into as well. So during the war turkey has stopped us from operating out of NATO bases in their country but they have never stopped over flight. About the only dickhead that do it with regularity once again “the French”

The French are my favorite ally as they always let us know when they need us. The last time was fantastic between the UK and France starting a war in Libya they ran out of fricking ordinance in three days. Now remember they started it and then they had to scream for the US to get involved to 1) emergency carry ammo to them and 2) bomb Libya in the interim. Apparently they think we just have ordinance laying around everywhere and actually would enjoy bombing Libya….OK well they were right, but still it would’ve been nice to have been asked….

Ok, That’s not exactly how it went down but that’s my favorite take on it
 
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Honestly can we just get the bombing over with so I can get rid my shorts on crypto, and everyone on here can quit debating over when it will or won't happen, or what's ethical or within the bounds.

My ada is sells are already up 25x because the 5x leverage. If anyone wants some free money here just leverage 5x against ada and wait for the bombings.
 
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Why, is that a confusing term? Okay, fine: dropping something with the intention of ruining someone's day.

Last time I can recall was 1995, during the Kosovo campaign. That's a generation ago. And this was done in the framework of NATO, so in coordination with European allies.

Since you claim that the USAF (or USN, as the case may be) "quite often" overflies foreign countries on bombing runs (as above) without their permission - I'm asking you to provide specific examples.
You are drawing bombing runs out like a ruler. If you are defining it as over flying any country with ordinance on board a US military plane I would say every single day almost every where in the world you find us or see us or don’t see us. I never once checked for overflight permission of a NATO country ( f*ck France because you would be right it’s not happening) or even a Major Ally. Now as far as the Middle East, The Kingdom is “in”, they are “out”, they are back “in”… That is handled by flight operations and sometimes diplomats not Aviators.

Ever single flight in the beginning of GWOT and the invasion of Afghanistan involved an over flight. And one of the last flights was of course was to get Osama bin Laden absolutely did not involve over flight permission from the Afghanis or the Pakistanis.

The only country I know of that ever denied us permission for over flights are the French. Even the Turks when they don’t let us use their NATO bases except an emergency, don’t say a word about over flights. I honestly can’t think of a time that we attacked another country by flying through contested airspace because it either wasn’t contested or the wars were before we had stealth aircraft.

Today we can pass through anyone’s airspace without them knowing it. They can’t even pick up F35 which are mediocre.

Picking up and tracking a B2 or an F22 is not gonna happen. Even the F117 that was shot down by the Serbian (which by the way was damn fine work on their part) involved multiple day after day bombing run following the identical path and always giving itself away when it’s Bomb bay doors were open, then extrapolating from those faint returns to where the bomb struck (again and again) to swag where the aircraft would be. Then they volley fired. Several tries and then they got a near miss with sufficient hit to bring down the ship. But again that was the least stealthy aircraft we’ve ever had during its attack.

My argument is no one would need to know. Also Poland would love to host and reload and refuel a US combat Aircraft. They want to be friends with US. The want the American public to think well of them because they may very well need a friend someday and haven’t had 70 years of arrogant entitlement breed into them. They have a living memory of hating their overlords (unlike parts of east Germany that somehow mistily opine for the old days…(Helsinki syndrome* is strong in those ones)

From the Turkish border and from the Gulf Iran is wide open. Do you consider just flying over (overflight) on the way to a target to be on the “bomb run”?

Defining it as the last country you took off from. Are we defining it as the last country you passed through.
Because if you stayed over water it could be the US or Diego Garcia.

Are we defining it as the country through which you were launched your ordinance? Because that is a world difference from overflight.

I would say that I flew over every European ally (including France) at some point carrying hate mail, as well as most Asian Allies (RoK, Jap, PI, Thailand, Turkey and others (Panama, Honduras, Mexico, El Salvador too I’m sure. I never once asked for permission to carry ordinance. Not once.
 
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Yes WE CAN and quite often do. And IF you’re in a B-2 no one will know (Ha). Seriously ALL of Europe INCLUDING Poland and Turkey are NATO. (Those two are hard way point in this discussion)

There are a few crappy ass shitholes south of that line of flight that are non-permissive but they don’t matter, not even a little bit.

As far as European overflight, I think I covered that with “Spain is usually super permissive and NATO friendly (middle finger🇫🇷) ”
you would kinda think france would learn the first time when they invented the middle finger.
 
I never once checked for overflight permission of a NATO country.
Didn't you have to file a flight plan for those missions? 'Cause okay, I'm willing to believe you didn't personally check for permission, but I'll bet my ass someone higher up the chain did before they sent you on your way.

Note: I'm not talking about exercises; I know nobody cares about those.
And one of the last flights was of course was to get Osama bin Laden absolutely did not involve over flight permission from the Afghanis or the Pakistanis.
Oh come on, we're not counting the Teams. That's cheating. :ROFLMAO:
My argument is no one would need to know. Also Poland would love to host and reload and refuel a US combat Aircraft. They want to be friends with US. The want the American public to think well of them because they may very well need a friend someday and haven’t had 70 years of arrogant entitlement breed into them. They have a living memory of hating their overlords (unlike parts of east Germany that somehow mistily opine for the old days…(Helsinki syndrome* is strong in those ones)
Trust me, I know all about it.
From the Turkish border and from the Gulf Iran is wide open. Do you consider just flying over (overflight) on the way to a target to be on the “bomb run”?
Yes. Allowing you to fly through their airspace carries diplomatic repercussions in that they're actively aiding one side of the conflict, which makes them a co-aggressor. This is the case of Belarus in the RU/UA war.
 
Their assessment that the decision to build up and attack Iran is out of the blue.
While it might seem out of the blue. I disagree with them regarding the strategic importance of it. Give Irans historic support of proxy terrorist and rouge governments. Coupled with Irans persistent pursuit of nuclear weapons.
Is not a surprise. It might be a surprise based upon previous governments dealings with Iran.
But as a matter risk and necessity to confront Iran before they develop a deliverable nuclear weapon it’s not a surprise

To anyone paying attention it’s not a surprise.
Do you think it is even possible to be a surprise in the modern age anymore? Could those bombers leave Diago without anyone knowing?
 
Do you think it is even possible to be a surprise in the modern age anymore? Could those bombers leave Diago without anyone knowing?
ya it shouldn't be televised nor satalight info should be blocked from anyone knowing. cause if i was going to go to war why the hell should i have that for the world to see? play command and conquer much? or company of hero's?
 
Didn't you have to file a flight plan for those missions? 'Cause okay, I'm willing to believe you didn't personally check for permission, but I'll bet my ass someone higher up the chain did before they sent you on your way.

Note: I'm not talking about exercises; I know nobody cares about those.

Oh come on, we're not counting the Teams. That's cheating. :ROFLMAO:

Trust me, I know all about it.

Yes. Allowing you to fly through their airspace carries diplomatic repercussions in that they're actively aiding one side of the conflict, which makes them a co-aggressor. This is the case of Belarus in the RU/UA war.
I do believe that in a time of war permission is not asked. It's more like this is what we're doing, and it wouldn't be a good idea to try to stop us. As an aviator Torch would know more about this. I do believe the motto of the Strategic Air Command or Global Strike Command is what I think they call it now is "any time, any place".
 
ya it shouldn't be televised nor satalight info should be blocked from anyone knowing. cause if i was going to go to war why the hell should i have that for the world to see? play command and conquer much? or company of hero's?
I'm not a gamer myself. All thumbs and then I get PO'd when I try. More of a movie buff.
 
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