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Trump - Zelensky Meeting in Washington

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Snowfall said:
Ukraine is definitely going to have to give up territory but giving up your defensive line to a country who routinely breaks agreements is signing your own death warrant no matter the security guarantee.
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So what just bitch about it?
Keep going till Ukraine falls?
NATO enters the war?
Or work to get the best most functional deal you can?

Doing nothing but the first three without a plan to win it or end it is like the ultimate FAFO. We will all eventually find out.

Bush, Obama, and Biden did nothing when Putin launched his last three takeovers.
But we complain that Trump is trying to end a 31/2 year long war that resulted in millions of casualties and likely decimated a generation of Ukrainians.
 
OReid said:
So what just bitch about it?
Keep going till Ukraine falls?
NATO enters the war?
Or work to get the best most functional deal you can?

Doing nothing but the first three without a plan to win it or end it is like the ultimate FAFO. We will all eventually find out.

Bush, Obama, and Biden did nothing when Putin launched his last three takeovers.
But we complain that Trump is trying to end a 31/2 year long war that resulted in millions of casualties and likely decimated a generation of Ukrainians.
Click to expand...
Ending the war while ensuring it happens again is not better than the war continuing. Force a deal on the current front line, give up Crimea, but giving up the main defensive line they spent a decade building is a guarantee this war restarts. Unless Europe actually demonstrates it is willing to go to war with Russia if it attacks Ukraine again, which it doesn’t have the spine for.
 
BREAKING 🚨 Trump says he's making "arrangements for a meeting, between President Putin and President Zelenskyy".

⚡️⚡️
Trump:
"I had a very good meeting with distinguished guests, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, of Ukraine, President Emmanuel Macron, of France, President Alexander Stubb, of Finland, Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, of Italy, Prime Minister Keir Starmer, of the United Kingdom, Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany, Friedrich Merz, President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, and Secretary General of NATO, Mark Rutte, in the White House, which ended in a further meeting in the Oval Office. During the meeting we discussed Security Guarantees for Ukraine, which Guarantees would be provided by the various European Countries, with a coordination with the United States of America. Everyone is very happy about the possibility of PEACE for Russia/Ukraine. At the conclusion of the meetings, I called President Putin, and began the arrangements for a meeting, at a location to be determined, between President Putin and President Zelenskyy. After that meeting takes place, we will have a Trilat, which would be the two Presidents, plus myself. Again, this was a very good, early step for a War that has been going on for almost four years. Vice President JD Vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, and Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, are coordinating with Russia and Ukraine. Thank you for your attention to this matter!"
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Snowfall said:
Ending the war while ensuring it happens again is not better than the war continuing. Force a deal on the current front line, give up Crimea, but giving up the main defensive line they spent a decade building is a guarantee this war restarts. Unless Europe actually demonstrates it is willing to go to war with Russia if it attacks Ukraine again, which it doesn’t have the spine for.
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Fair enough, the British have committed to sending troops afterwards. There vague talks about the US as well.
I agree Ukraine needs hard fast security guarantees from western militaries.

The possibility that Putin has moved on the possibility of bilateral or mini-coalition of western militaries providing security is a big change.
It would be devastating to Putin domestic to cave on Ukraine joining nato. I personally could care less about his political position at home.
Just looking at it from the realm of possibilities.

“If” British Norway US or Poland deployed troops to Ukraine after settlement. Just spitballing here, it’s a win for Ukraine on that sticking point.

Not sure what you mean about Ukraines built up defense lines. Russia is pushing a salient line through the defensive line Ukraine has built up even now.

It’s not in anyway a good situation and it will be a lose/lose for both sides.
But again unless there is military plan to drive Russia back of out of Ukraine besides mean talk and throwing money at it I’m all ears.
 
OReid said:
Fair enough, the British have committed to sending troops afterwards. There vague talks about the US as well.
I agree Ukraine needs hard fast security guarantees from western militaries.

The possibility that Putin has moved on the possibility of bilateral or mini-coalition of western militaries providing security is a big change.
It would be devastating to Putin domestic to cave on Ukraine joining nato. I personally could care less about his political position at home.
Just looking at it from the realm of possibilities.

“If” British Norway US or Poland deployed troops to Ukraine after settlement. Just spitballing here, it’s a win for Ukraine on that sticking point.

Not sure what you mean about Ukraines built up defense lines. Russia is pushing a salient line through the defensive line Ukraine has built up even now.

It’s not in anyway a good situation and it will be a lose/lose for both sides.
But again unless there is military plan to drive Russia back of out of Ukraine besides mean talk and throwing money at it I’m all ears.
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First that salient has been destroyed so the line is standing. The biggest problem is just this morning the kremlin stated they would not allow nato forces in Ukraine as a peacekeeping force. So what Russia is effectively asking Ukraine is to give up territory it doesn’t control, in exchange for allowing it to keep territory it hasn’t taken, under the promise of security guarantees that aren’t going to allow it to have European troops on its territory, with a pinkie promise that it won’t invade again. That’s not a negotiation, those are terms of surrender. So again we’re at the problem why end the fighting when all you’re going to do is restart it in 3-5 years.

Here’s a source on the no troops from this morning
m.economictimes.com

Russia rejects NATO troop deployment in Ukraine, slams UK remarks

Russia opposes NATO troop deployment in Ukraine. The Foreign Ministry calls UK's statements provocative. Moscow believes London is undermining efforts for a fair resolution. Russia and Washington are working towards a lasting solution. The ministry says UK's stance contradicts these efforts...
m.economictimes.com m.economictimes.com
 
william said:
EU boots on the ground and the eagle flying overhead would be my guess.
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Never going to happen. The kremlin has convinced its own people for the past 3 years the whole reason this war started is because of NATO expansion. There’s zero chance they’re going to be able to sell it that they agreed to have NATO forces in Ukraine as a successful end to the war.
 
OReid said:
But we complain that Trump is trying to end a 31/2 year long war that resulted in millions of casualties and likely decimated a generation of Ukrainians.
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Trump is the mouthpiece for Putin's demands and will do whatever he is instructed to.

Which doesn't detract from the fact that, in order to end this war, Ukrainwe is going to have to make some concessions that it doesn't want to.
The real question is what will the security guarantees be, are they enforceable and will they be enough to prevent Putin going to war again 3-5 years down the line?
 
Snowfall said:
Never going to happen. The kremlin has convinced its own people for the past 3 years the whole reason this war started is because of NATO expansion. There’s zero chance they’re going to be able to sell it that they agreed to have NATO forces in Ukraine as a successful end to the war.
Click to expand...
Maybe India or China in the DMZ?
 
US President Donald Trump stressed in an interview with Fox News that no American troops will be sent to defend the Ukrainian border, and that this policy will continue after his term ends.

Trump said in this regard: "I'm just trying to stop people from getting killed. They're losing between five and seven thousand people a week in this ridiculous war that should never have happened."

He also announced that he plans to have a bilateral meeting between Putin and Zelensky first and then focus on broader trilateral talks.

Regarding the meeting between the Russian and Ukrainian presidents, the US president said: "They haven't exactly been close friends, maybe they get along a little better than I thought. Otherwise, I wouldn't have arranged a bilateral meeting and I would have arranged a trilateral meeting."

Trump reiterated that Ukraine would not join NATO, but added that some European countries had provided similar support to NATO by providing security guarantees to Ukraine.

He added: "We ended seven wars. I thought this would be one of the easiest, but it turned out to be the hardest.".
https://twitter.com/x/status/1957828411251900681
 
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