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UA-RU-NATO | Discussions | Sep. 13th/25th 2025

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So long as Russia has nukes. No matter how weak and pathetic their army is they are untouchable saddly, so nothing "one can do about it" really... But without nukes. They are truly nothing compared to the rest of the professional standing armies of the world.

They already a appendage of China, really.
 
I have participated in such things. It is not unusual for officers of various nations to send observers to each others exercises.

It helps ensure that only exercises are taking place. Dating back many centuries, it is largely respected and in Western Armies observing officers are not harassed in any way.

Asia Armies have similar legacy protocols but (AFAIK) treat biding officers like poorly.

No Idea about Sub-Continent but I expect the former British Colony have a western take on the exchanges.

Russians were, in my experience, cordial and professional.

Typically, simply because we may soon be killing each other, there’s no reason not to be polite. Of further consequence the officers can develop contacts that are extremely useful during parlays or treating, and while discussing terms or enforcing ceasefires.

I am unsurprised.
There are currently Turkish, Indian, American & Hungarian observers at Zapad - from the allied powers.
 
I am not advocating or promoting anything for anyone to do anything. Just simply pointing out the moot point that without their nukes they are nothing.
Without nukes, every superpower is a fart in the wind, as long as one nation has them and uses them to impose their will on the world at large. This is why there needs to be multiple nuclear armed nations, without it there is no balance. Call my view controversial, but the world needs Russia to keep the nukes. The world needs everyone to keep their nukes until every single nation disarms at once. Unfortunately this will never happen.

Kinda. If pointing out facts and the sad reality we face, then yes.
Yeah, the reality sucks. To me, the reality is we are going to have half a dozen more nuclear powers by 2050, and 2100 we will have something far more destructive. Perhaps anti-matter explosives. It’s just the way things go.
 
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Strip away the nukes and Russia isn’t a superpower it’s background noise.

👉 Ukraine has been grinding the Kremlin’s army with warehouse leftovers and museum pieces from the West. Not our best stuff. Not even close. And still the “second army in the world” bleeds out. Pathetic.

👉 They can’t keep bombers flying, couldn’t protect their own flagship, and run a military held together with duct tape and propaganda. The only thing propping up Moscow’s swagger is Soviet-era stockpile of nukes they’re terrified to actually use.

No nukes, no mystique. Just a corrupt gas station with delusions. A fart in the wind.
The Russian have in fact self demoted themselves from Superpower whilst completely skipping World Power and landing firmly on regional power.

The Russians are certainly in a class of one as that level of shifting and stark incompetence is singular.
 
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Not at all. US and China could still really fuck some shit up even without their nukes and good luck invading either. Even without their nukes. Hate to give China credit. But yea.
👉Russia could barly get its navy to sail to Cuba for a "drill" without it falling appart for cripes sake dude. 🤣 Had to be towed half the way!

Russia is not a superpower. No way. Not in any means by the definition regarding conventional capabilities.

Russia not even a strong regional power anymore regarding their conventional capabilities.

Beyond their nuclear weapons they cannot project onto the world theater. Look no further than Syria when their ally needed help. They did nothing cause they could do nothing but watch their ally collaspe. Same for Iran when it was attacked.
 
Not at all. US and China could still really fuck some shit up even without their nukes and good luck invading either. Even without their nukes. Hate to give China credit. But yea.
Yes, China and the U.S. have enough conventional arms to make all kinds of problems. The issue is, you cant make said problems when one nation has the nuclear boogeyman, and can flex that any time they want.

Look at India and Pakistan. I recall the staff getting a little anxious about the trajectory of the skirmish. If one of those nations didn’t have nukes, would the staff have been so concerned? Each side was on relatively equal footing in terms of short term damage that could be done to the other.

The advantage of nukes is they offer a final solution in 15 minutes, not 15 years. That is what allowed us to decisively end WW2.

“We can turn your whole nation to glass in 15 minutes, so please we would like your resources, and your human capital. If you are good maybe we will let you keep some of what you once were.”

How do we get to the point where nuclear conflict is no longer possible? I don’t think we can. Until then, Russia has the ability to keep hitting Ukraine conventionally. NATO won’t do anything unless directly struck.
 
Russia’s entire Ukraine adventure is the most humiliating faceplant of modern history.

Putin sells his brain dead masses at home & his useful idiots in the west the fantasy that they’re “fighting NATO,” while in reality his army is being shredded by leftover Western junk we dug out of storage closets not even being made anymore. Not the new gear. Not the best gear. Just the dusty bottom shelf scraps. And still Russia bleeds.

This war isn’t about “security.” It isn’t about NATO. It’s about one paranoid dictator’s fixation on clawing ONE warm water port at the cost of hundreds of thousands of his own countrymen. ONE.

Russia traded its future, its economy, its people’s lives, and its dignity for Putin’s vanity project to take JUST ONE warm water port. Pathetic.

👉 👉 👉Strip away the nukes, and Russia is nothing. A failed state with rusting tanks, drunk generals, and propaganda as thin as tissue paper. If it weren’t for their Soviet era warheads, Russia would be a fart in the wind, a pathetic mafia gas station pretending to be a superpower. History’s already laughing.
Just for shits and giggles I was looking back to the first time they’ve accused us of it. The defcon update for August of 2022 mentioned Russia for the first time accused the United states of being directly involved in the conflict. So they’ve been saying it for three years at this point.
 
Just for shits and giggles I was looking back to the first time they’ve accused us of it. The defcon update for August of 2022 mentioned Russia for the first time accused the United states of being directly involved in the conflict. So they’ve been saying it for three years at this point.
Which is one of the reasons why I don’t see this as a NATO/Russia war yet. It’s a headline for shock value and clicks. When an actual NATO nation is directly exchanging fire, or they formally announce the declaration of war, then I will see it as such, and promptly review bugout plans.
 
Each side was on relatively equal footing in terms of short term damage
Not even slightly. Indian far, far, far outweighs Pakistan conventional army. HENCE why Pakistan has a first use nuclear doctrine. Because they know they will be steamrolled by India in any conventional conflict so nukes get used pretty quickly for Pakistan to level battlefield against India massive army compared to Pakistan.

Luckily India had no intention of land grabs. So nukes never came into play thankfully. Though I still believe India was trying to "pop" Pakistan. Which. Maybe they could of pulled off without it going nuclear. I'd give it a 60/40 chance it would if they did successfully pop Pakistan government.
 
Which is one of the reasons why I don’t see this as a NATO/Russia war yet. It’s a headline for shock value and clicks. When an actual NATO nation is directly exchanging fire, or they formally announce the declaration of war, then I will see it as such, and promptly review bugout plans.
Yeah it’s just to keep Russian citizens engaged in the war effort and explain the difficulty they’re having against what they were told was an easy target who would welcome them with open arms.
 
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Russia’s entire Ukraine adventure is the most humiliating faceplant of modern history.

Putin sells his brain dead masses at home & his useful idiots in the west the fantasy that they’re “fighting NATO,” while in reality his army is being shredded by leftover Western junk we dug out of storage closets not even being made anymore. Not the new gear. Not the best gear. Just the dusty bottom shelf scraps. And still Russia bleeds.

This war isn’t about “security.” It isn’t about NATO. It’s about one paranoid dictator’s fixation on clawing ONE warm water port at the cost of hundreds of thousands of his own countrymen. ONE.

Russia traded its future, its economy, its people’s lives, and its dignity for Putin’s vanity project to take JUST ONE warm water port. Pathetic.

👉 👉 👉Strip away the nukes, and Russia is nothing. A failed state with rusting tanks, drunk generals, and propaganda as thin as tissue paper. If it weren’t for their Soviet era warheads, Russia would be a fart in the wind, a pathetic mafia gas station pretending to be a superpower. History’s already laughing.
DN while I agree that Putin’s war in Ukraine has been a major blow to Russias standing as a world military power.
They did not win with decisive victories and a victorious march into Kiev.

Let’s not forget they have been able to continue to fight as well as still making slow gains. This against a nation that is smaller yes. Has had the economic aid and military weapons provided to them by several of the world’s largest militaries.

No this does mean I believe Russia would be nearly as successful if they were in a conventional war with nato head to head.

I’m only pointing out that Russia in a concentional war against a nation who has had the economic and military support Ukraine has had. Is still in the fight.

I don’t say any of this to criticize Ukraine or elevate Russia. Only to point out that Russia is not relegated to obscurity just yet.
 
Not even slightly. Indian far, far, far outweighs Pakistan conventional army. HENCE why Pakistan has a first use nuclear doctrine. Because they know they will be steamrolled by India in any conventional conflict so nukes get used pretty quickly for Pakistan to level battlefield against India massive army compared to Pakistan.
Thats what I was referring to, when I meant short term damage.

Luckily India had no intention of land grabs. So nukes never came into play thankfully. Though I still believe India was trying to "pop" Pakistan. Which. Maybe they could of pulled off without it going nuclear. I'd give it a 60/40 chance it would if they did successfully pop Pakistan government.
Yes that one would have gotten bad quick.
 
Thats what I was referring to, when I meant short term damage.


Yes that one would have gotten bad quick.
Pakistan has technological parity thanks to China, but they don’t have the numbers to keep up with it. Hence why they can fight pretty well for a short conflict but anything long enough to effect losses and we would see them tumble.
 
Pakistan has technological parity thanks to China, but they don’t have the numbers to keep up with it. Hence why they can fight pretty well for a short conflict but anything long enough to effect losses and we would see them tumble.
Word!
 
Oops for a second there i thought I was in the humour section. Correction sorry this isn't the first time these opinions have been voiced in discussion section. Absolutely hilarious though . Especially those who continue to believe such, yet here this topic still exists with such massive odds against such little capabilities. Obviously superiority isn't all it's cracked up to be. Than again much smaller countries have achieved such many times with odds against them as historically proven. Keep releasing pressure people. Stay healthy. 😉🤞
 
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