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Theology

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We can choose which side to go to -- good or evil.
Jesus put it in very black and white terms. "He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad." (Matthew 12:30)

Either you are on his side or against his side. There are no neutral parties.
 
Jesus put it in very black and white terms. "He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad." (Matthew 12:30)

Either you are on his side or against his side. There are no neutral parties.
At the risk of drawing ire, does this verse suggest that even supreme Deity is capable of committing the logical fallacy of false dichotomy?
 
At the risk of drawing ire, does this verse suggest that even supreme Deity is capable of committing the logical fallacy of false dichotomy?
No. It means that there are two options. 1) Follow Jesus. 2) Work against Jesus.

Sinning is rebellion against God. That is what the word "sin" means. "Rebellion".

If you're not following Jesus, you are by definition working against him.

There are no alternatives besides those two choices. Therefore not a false dichotomy.
 
No. It means that there are two options. 1) Follow Jesus. 2) Work against Jesus.

Sinning is rebellion against God. That is what the word "sin" means. "Rebellion".

If you're not following Jesus, you are by definition working against him.

There are no alternatives besides those two choices. Therefore not a false dichotomy.
In order for Matthew 12:30 not to be a false dichotomy, there must really be no third (other) option, as you rightfully point out.

I'm asking (not necessarily arguing)... Doesn't Mark 9:40 and Luke 9:50 suggest a third option? Do they open the door for passive "followance" of some sort?

Mark 9:40: "For whoever is not against us is for us."
Luke 9:50: "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."
 
I'm asking (not necessarily arguing)... Doesn't Mark 9:40 and Luke 9:50 suggest a third option? Do they open the door for passive "followance" of some sort?

Mark 9:40: "For whoever is not against us is for us."
Luke 9:50: "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."
Jesus is saying the same thing, just in reverse order.

He who is not with us is against us.

He is is not against us is with us.

Same thing. Different perspective.
 
How close did you live to him?
Right next door, used to come up to me at the pub and share drinks then moved to a share house across the road and murdered two women who had lived at that address and knew him. He is also the person who told me how to butcher long pork in comparison to an actual pig and where the best cuts were. Had always thought he was joking until I found out he was arrested. Someone claimed I was his accomplice and I was arrested at work on suspicion but was able to prove by receipts that I was hundreds of miles away on every day he did something. Thankfully I used credit cards for a trail for the accounts department.

The eyes say it all. Leonard Fraser - Wikipedia

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Jesus put it in very black and white terms. "He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad." (Matthew 12:30)

Either you are on his side or against his side. There are no neutral parties.
Good vs Evil predates Christianity. The Old Testament predates the new by a couple of thousand years. Not all of us are Christians, but that doesn't mean we're against God.
 
Good vs Evil predates Christianity. The Old Testament predates the new by a couple of thousand years. Not all of us are Christians, but that doesn't mean we're against God.
Yes. Just because one isn't Christian doesn't mean your working against God. So @DEFCON Warning System your saying that the Jewish faith will go hell because they don't believe in Jesus as a Savior even though they believe and worship the same God?

For a faith that is thousands of years older than Christianity. Seems kinda a illogical sentiment to think Christians over Jews are more worthy of heaven in gods eyes.
 
No. It means that there are two options. 1) Follow Jesus. 2) Work against Jesus.

Sinning is rebellion against God. That is what the word "sin" means. "Rebellion".

If you're not following Jesus, you are by definition working against him.

There are no alternatives besides those two choices. Therefore not a false dichotomy.
The vast majority of Judaism as a whole does not believe in Jesus. For Judaism, Jesus is neither the Messiah nor the Son of God. This applies to all major branches, whether Orthodox, Conservative, or Liberal. Here are the main reasons why the Jewish faith rejects Jesus: Absence of Messiah status: For Judaism, the Messiah is a human being who must fulfill specific prophecies on Earth: establish an era of world peace, gather the Jewish people in Israel, and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. Since Jesus did not accomplish these things in his time, he is not recognized as such.
 
Good vs Evil predates Christianity. The Old Testament predates the new by a couple of thousand years. Not all of us are Christians, but that doesn't mean we're against God.
If you sin, you have operated against God.

If you don't follow God, you are against him. That is what Jesus is saying.
 
Yes. Just because one isn't Christian doesn't mean your working against God.
If you don't work with Jesus, you are working against him.

Jesus said there is only one way to the Father: through him. It is exclusive.

So @DEFCON Warning System your saying that the Jewish faith will go hell because they don't believe in Jesus as a Savior even though they believe and worship the same God?

If you sin, you will go to Hell. Jesus is the only escape from Hell.

For a faith that is thousands of years older than Christianity. Seems kinda a illogical sentiment to think Christians over Jews are more worthy of heaven in gods eyes.
It isn't about being worthy. It is accepting the sacrifice that Jesus gave for our sins. Without Jesus, we have to earn our way to Heaven, and we can't do that.
 
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If you don't work with Jesus, you are working against him.

Jesus said there is only one way to the Father: through him. It is exclusive.



If you sin, you will go to Hell. Jesus is the only escape from Hell.


It isn't about being worthy. It is accepting the sacrifice that Jesus gave for our sins. Without Jesus, we have to earn our way to Heaven, and we can't do that.
Again, not all of us see Jesus as the Messiah. It's quite possible to follow God without following Jesus.
 
Again, not all of us see Jesus as the Messiah. It's quite possible to follow God without following Jesus.
It isn't.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. - John 14:6

Either Jesus is the only way, or Jesus was lying.
 
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It isn't.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. - John 14:6

Either Jesus is the only way, or Jesus was lying.
You are very lucky me and @Librarylady value you and your mission here at the DWS, truly.

You should be very careful saying such things as the owner of such a establishment.

And infact wouldn't be surprised if you lost most of your Jewish viewership after those comments. You would be surprised how many of us are here.

I only say this cause your the only reasonable media outlet left. Yes. I'm stroking your ego, but because you deserve it. Really, keep up gods work. Just be careful what you say as leadership of organization. I'm trying to help you and me strive major media status on par with 90's CNN, you know, when they where worth a damn, and trustworthy. ;)
 
You should be very careful saying such things as the owner of such a establishment.
I could switch to my personal account. Wouldn’t change what I say.

Jesus isn't a replacement of Judaism. He is the fulfilment of it. He did what we could not. Live a sinless life. He became the sacrifice that bulls and goats could not be.

He called people back to Judaism. To love the God of Abraham. To fulfil the Law, which was love God and love your neighbour.

Rather than repudiating Judaism, Jesus enshrined it.
 
I could switch to my personal account. Wouldn’t change what I say.

Jesus isn't a replacement of Judaism. He is the fulfilment of it. He did what we could not. Live a sinless life. He became the sacrifice that bulls and goats could not be.

He called people back to Judaism. To love the God of Abraham. To fulfil the Law, which was love God and love your neighbour.

Rather than repudiating Judaism, Jesus enshrined it.
As much as I disagree with your sentiment... It was only half my inspiration in participating in this thread. Half is for personal reason. The other half is professional.

It would be probably best you do these comments under @Lighthope much like I do my personal takes under DarkNoon instead of Nuclear-ID.

While I believe in my right to opinion as should you. That shouldn't step on our SHARED mission goal which is to provide FREELY critical & important information & analysis (the analysis you provide) to as many people as possible as no one else ANYWHERE does so. I believe in your mission which is why I've been here almost two decades.

Just. Know. Only commented cause I saw screaming PR problem. Plus personal friction. But I can personally let that slide off my shoulder. But many may not...

Sadly........... people are to dumb to separate profession work from personal opinion. Not your fault. People just can't simply understand or accept one can personally remove themselves/opinion from their work/mission. Humanity dumb. What can I say. Sadly we have to play the game as is if we want to help/reach the most people.
 
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Sadly........... people are to dumb to separate profession work from personal opinion. Not your fault. People just can't simply understand or accept one can personally remove themselves/opinion from their work/mission. Humanity dumb. What can I say. Sadly we have to play the game as is if we want to help/reach the most people.
You know this. It's the exact reason why we got rid of the political subsection. Because people where to dumb to separate what members said here and what the organization actually endorsed or represents/does, and as director that line blurs even more!

Though I personally think a lot are not that dumb and then purposely act like that to derail legitimate topics or slander this organization reputation because it goes against their narrative as narratives die in the light of facts and reason. And this place is nothing but facts and reasoning.

Either way... True ignorance or on purpose. We must do this if we want to reach/help more people.

Hope you take my advice and I am going to step out of this thread now... A bit to personal for me to actually step in this debate.
 
The patriarchs of the Old Testament were and are justified through action due to their faith in God. Abraham received justification “forgiveness”. Before he was even circumcised. Before he was ever a Hebrew. How was Job justified before God? There is no strong indication he was Hebrew or circumcised.

There are no alter calls in the New Testament. Abraham David Jeremiah Noah were not justified by circumcising nor confession of Christ as the Messiah.
It was their faith that God provides a way and then acting on that faith.

Therefore I cannot take the seat of God and issue judgment, because I do not know the hearts of men. I can share my my faith and understanding about all of all this. The rest is up to the Holy Spirit.
 
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