Capitalism Is *Not* the Problem. What We Built Out of It Is Decay or Rot.

[NuclearID]

Strangers Raise Over $150K for a 68-Year-Old Domino’s Delivery Driver

Dan Simpson went out of his way to buy Diet Coke for a customer after his store ran out. A GoFundMe in his name has raised over $150,000.

www.today.com

I mean, yes, it is genuinely good that people stepped up for him. But more than anything, it makes me angry that they had to in the first place.

No, taxing the ultra wealthy and giant corporations more fairly would not magically solve every problem. Anyone claiming that is overselling it. But it would absolutely make things better, and pretending otherwise is nonsense.

The issue is not “free handouts.” The issue is that the current system is wildly unreasonable. These companies profit from roads, utilities, public services, labor markets, and the broader infrastructure that makes their business possible, yet far too many of them pay nowhere near a fair share back into the very system that sustains them.

And yes, anyone telling you otherwise has bought into elitist propaganda. I am not a Democrat, and I am not a Republican, and I can tell you plainly that neither side is truly for you.

Capitalism itself is not the problem. Runaway, end stage capitalism is.

The only real solution is to give government enough power to correct it. Yes, history shows that can be dangerous if abused. But history also shows America has already done this before when things went too far.

That is the part people forget. America has already lived through this. Monopoly laws, child labor laws, and competition laws did not appear out of nowhere. They were corrections to an economy that had gone too far, built on hard lessons and real suffering.

And like always, history repeats itself when later generations forget why those corrections were needed in the first place.

We cannot save everyone. But we can do a hell of a lot better than this.

 

[NuclearID]

I am not talking about some fantasy where taxing the ultra wealthy fixes everything overnight. It obviously would not. But no reasonable person can argue that the current arrangement makes sense either.

We have corporations making unprecedented amounts of wealth while leaning on the same infrastructure that allows them to operate in the first place, and yet many of them pay nowhere near a fair share back into maintaining it. That is not reasonable. That is not sustainable.

And this is where people lose the plot. Too many on the left frame redistribution as some all or nothing cure, which it is not. It should be practical, limited, and aimed at strengthening the foundations that society and business both depend on.

Not endless handouts. Not fantasy economics. Infrastructure. Stability. Public investment. The basic systems that keep the country functioning.

That is all I am saying.

 

[NuclearID]

Anyone asking me for exact numbers is trying to drag a legitimate argument into the weeds. READ BEFORE RESPONSE:

This is not about finding some magic number where everything suddenly becomes unacceptable. It is about recognizing an obvious structural reality. When wealth piles up at the top in unprecedented amounts while ordinary people are increasingly unable to keep up, the system is not functioning in any healthy or sustainable way.

No, I cannot hand you a neat little formula that fixes it all. That is not the point. The point is that a broken system does not become less broken just because someone demands a level of numerical precision that is impossible in a discussion like this.

 

[NuclearID]

This thread may get no traction at all, because most people already picked a team long before they picked apart the reality.

I am not interested in defending a tribe here.

I am interested in forcing a look at the condition of the system as it actually is.

That usually makes people uncomfortable, because reality does not fit neatly into their petty partisan talking points.

Most of America needs to grow up and realize both sides don't give a flying rats ass about you or any American.

They are ALL ruled BOTH SIDES by the same corporations or rich fat cats. You are not a unique individual for picking Republican or Democrat because both parties are ruled by the same corporations in the same Rich fat cats.

 

[NuclearID]

Capitalism is NOT the enemy.

In fact, capitalism is the only economic system in history that has repeatedly proven it can generate real growth, innovation, productivity, and upward mobility on a scale no other system has matched. Even when individual capitalist systems fail or become distorted, the core model itself still has a far better track record than systems built on stagnation, coercion, or managed decline.

The problem is not capitalism. The problem is what happens when people with too much power bend it to serve themselves at everyone else’s expense.

Yes, capitalism naturally creates winners and losers. That is reality. But it does not have to be this lopsided, this concentrated, or this detached from any sense of balance or social responsibility.

A healthy capitalist system should reward success, risk, and innovation. It should not allow wealth and power to become so concentrated that the entire structure starts serving the top at the expense of everyone beneath it.

That is where we are now. Not at the failure of capitalism itself, but at the failure to keep it disciplined, balanced, and tethered to the society it is supposed to serve.

 

[william]

I'm confused. On one hand you say the government doesn't give a shit about regular Americans. Both left and right and on the other hand you want to give the government MORE POWER?

"The only real solution is to give government enough power to correct it."

"Both sides don't give a flying rats ass about you or any American."

Absolut Power Corrupts Absolutely

 

[NuclearID]

I'm confused. On one hand you say the government doesn't give a shit about regular Americans. Both left and right and on the other hand you want to give the government MORE POWER?


Absolut Power Corrupts Absolutely

I do not trust government blindly, and I never said I did. IN FACT explicitly recognize the danger.

My point is that government is the only institution with the legal authority to place guardrails on concentrated private power once markets stop correcting themselves.

So if your answer is that the problem is too entrenched/big to fix, then what exactly are you arguing for, other than resignation/defeatism? Because that's all I heard from you. "The problem too big, so there's nothing we can do about it." I call BS.

To me, that is the more unreasonable position.

Saying something is difficult, compromised, or imperfect is not the same as saying it should be abandoned entirely.

We have corrected systems before. Not perfectly, not permanently, but enough to matter.

If the system is distorted, the answer is not to shrug and let distortion harden into permanence.

The answer is to push for the only mechanisms that have ever been capable of imposing limits on that kind of power in the first place.

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

Not at the failure of capitalism itself, but at the failure to keep it disciplined, balanced, and tethered to the society it is supposed to serve.

What would your solution be?

 

[NuclearID]

What would your solution be?

Anyone asking me for exact numbers is trying to drag a legitimate argument into the weeds. READ BEFORE RESPONSE:

This is not about finding some magic number where everything suddenly becomes unacceptable. It is about recognizing an obvious structural reality. When wealth piles up at the top in unprecedented amounts while ordinary people are increasingly unable to keep up, the system is not functioning in any healthy or sustainable way.

I'm more happy to debate this in a real way other than trying to drag it into the weeds like you're trying too.

Remember I'm not a Republican or a Democrat so I have no stake on either side of the fence and could give a s*** about dragging either party side so come to me when you have a real thing to debate other than hyper-specific laws or scenarios that would fix an extremely complex situation that can't be fixed by one simple opinionated post.

 

[william]

I do not trust government blindly, and I never said I did. IN FACT explicitly recognize the danger.

My point is that government is the only institution with the legal authority to place guardrails on concentrated private power once markets stop correcting themselves.

So if your answer is that the problem is too entrenched/big to fix, then what exactly are you arguing for, other than resignation/defeatism? Because that's all I heard from you. "The problem too big, so there's nothing we can do about it." I call BS.

To me, that is the more unreasonable position.

Saying something is difficult, compromised, or imperfect is not the same as saying it should be abandoned entirely.

We have corrected systems before. Not perfectly, not permanently, but enough to matter.

If the system is distorted, the answer is not to shrug and let distortion harden into permanence.

The answer is to push for the only mechanisms that have ever been capable of imposing limits on that kind of power in the first place.

Isn't this what we do now with all the taxes, rules and regulations? Maybe we need more. Is THAT what you're proposing?

 

[NuclearID]

I'm more happy to debate this in a real way other than trying to drag it into the weeds like you're trying too.

Remember I'm not a Republican or a Democrat so I have no stake on either side of the fence and could give a s*** about dragging either party side so come to me when you have a real thing to debate other than hyper-specific laws or scenarios that would fix an extremely complex situation that can't be fixed by one simple opinionated post.

You know what I'm sorry. That was to hostile of me. Going through stuff past week and half. Not fair to take it out on you. Above all you.

Fair question........... It is. Can't be mad for demanding a explanation but think it's fair to say you know what you did too.

There is no single law or simple one line fix, because this problem was not created by one law or one party. My answer is not to replace capitalism, but to restore guardrails inside it.

That means stronger antitrust enforcement, real competition policy, tighter limits on regulatory capture, a tax structure less tilted toward concentrated wealth over labor, stronger labor protections, and reinvestment into the public infrastructure and institutions that both society and business depend on. In other words, discipline it.

The issue is not profit. The issue is a system that has become too concentrated, too distorted, and too detached from the society beneath it.

So no, I am not going to pretend there is one magic law or one magic number that fixes an extremely complex structural problem. But acting like that means no solution exists is even less serious.

The first stage of fixing a problem is acknowledging it exists is my point. Which even though the problem is blaring and screaming in our face people have a hard time even seeing that simple fact.

 

[NuclearID]

The first step in fixing a problem is acknowledging that it exists. That is my point.

And even though this problem is glaringly obvious in the outcomes, people still struggle to admit it is there.

@DEFCON Warning System I do not make laws, and I do not need a law degree to recognize when something is wrong and needs correcting. I am not pretending to have a complete legislative blueprint in my back pocket.

But I do not need one to say plainly that the current state of things is unacceptable and cannot go on like this forever.

 

[NuclearID]

If someone cannot even acknowledge that a serious structural problem exists, then real discussion becomes almost impossible.

And that is part of what makes this so frustrating. Many of the very people being harmed by the system have been conditioned to treat any criticism of it as heresy.

When in reality questioning a distorted system is exactly what a healthy society should be doing. Not treating it as heresy.

 

[NuclearID]

This. This right here is why I stopped being a Democrat and why I am never going to be a Republican because again both sides have brainwashed both sides into thinking one side is better for America when in reality both sides are not for America in any way shape or form.

THEY BOTH WORK FOR THE SAME private interest they both work for the same corporations and at the end of the day it doesn't matter what side presents themselves they both operate under the same modus operandi which is the people that fund their elections which again are the same people on both sides.

It's really sad that corporate America has got such a f****** stranglehold on American population into such domestic farm animals state of mind.

Kudos really, I mean their plan worked perfectly. And most Americans are playing right into it, Democrat or Republican.

SAD. Most should be ashamed of their selves. I was. But you can learn, and you can change. If I can. Anyone can.

 

[NuclearID]

I should remind people that I am more than happy to leave Europe and dump NATO. On the surface that sounds like a standard Republican talking point. It is not. My position is based on realism, not party loyalty.

I used to be a Democrat, until I realized years ago that both parties are ultimately ruled by the same donor class.

Yes, Democrats and Republicans differ on social policy and presentation, but at the end of the day both still serve the same elite interests that fund them. That is the real problem.

I already believed before the Iran crisis that the United States should start drawing down from Europe and shifting its focus to Asia.

What has happened since has only pushed me further in that direction. If parts of NATO cannot act seriously even toward a common enemy, and would rather posture around Trump than face reality, then that tells me Europe needs to start carrying its own weight.

Europe combined is more than capable of handling Russia if it chooses to. The United States should be focused on the larger long-term threat, which is China and the changing balance of power in Asia.

Anyways this thread is not in any way shape or form about NATO or Europe... HOWEVER I was just showing that I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. AND WILL entirely reject or call out entirely any left or right propaganda talking points brutally and bluntly.

You been warned... so if you're going to debate this conversation abandon your politics. Abandon your party. Because I will tear you apart & your bias party talking points if you bring your party politics into this thread, DON'T CARE left or right.

I absolutely despise both sides.

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

I'm more happy to debate this in a real way other than trying to drag it into the weeds like you're trying too.

No, that is a ridiculous argument.

"There must be a better way, but I don't know know what it is."

If you can't even articulate a better way, then how do you know there is a better way?

I'm not asking for hard numbers. Just give me a theory.

"I think we should revise the tax code so that the upper eschaton pays a higher rate while insulating the lower incomes. We can adjust the rate as we see how the economy and society does."

"We should cut defence spending by 10%, using half to pay down the debt and half for social programmes."

"The Penny Plan should be introduced, which removed one cent from every dollar the government spends."

That wasn't so hard, was it?

 

[NuclearID]

No, that is a ridiculous argument.

"There must be a better way, but I don't know know what it is."

If you can't even articulate a better way, then how do you know there is a better way?

I'm not asking for hard numbers. Just give me a theory.

"I think we should revise the tax code so that the upper eschaton pays a higher rate while insulating the lower incomes. We can adjust the rate as we see how the economy and society does."

"We should cut defence spending by 10%, using half to pay down the debt and half for social programmes."

"The Penny Plan should be introduced, which removed one cent from every dollar the government spends."

That wasn't so hard, was it?

Fair enough. You asked for a theory, not exact numbers, so here it is.

Capitalism is not the enemy. Distorted capitalism is.

My argument is that capitalism works only when it has guardrails that stop concentrated wealth and private power from hollowing out the society underneath it. Once those guardrails erode, the system stops being balanced and starts becoming extraction.

So the answer is not to abolish capitalism. The answer is to put the guardrails back on: antitrust enforcement, competition laws, labor protections, less regulatory capture, a tax structure less slanted toward concentrated wealth, and reinvestment into the public systems that make the whole economy possible in the first place.

That is my theory. Not utopia. Not equal outcomes. Not handouts solving everything. Balance, discipline, and limits.

AGAIN:

Anyone asking me for exact numbers is trying to drag a legitimate argument into the weeds. READ BEFORE RESPONSE:

This is not about finding some magic number where everything suddenly becomes unacceptable. It is about recognizing an obvious structural reality. When wealth piles up at the top in unprecedented amounts while ordinary people are increasingly unable to keep up, the system is not functioning in any healthy or sustainable way.

No, I cannot hand you a neat little formula that fixes it all. That is not the point. The point is that a broken system does not become less broken just because someone demands a level of numerical precision that is impossible in a discussion like this.

Apparently you didn't read before response because you're still responding as if you're in a party politics stance expecting, a typical "hail mary" auto response for propaganda for party politics. But again I'm going to bluntly and severely call it out from here on out anytime, ANYONE, anywhere goes there.

Please, anyone, seriously contribute to this real problem and debate beyond party policy antics.

I absolutely fucking hate both Democrats and Republicans so don't even try. Seriously don't even bother because I'm going to pick it apart immediately.

 

[NuclearID]

So what again? Please spare me your party policy because I don't care if you're a Democrat or Republican both sides are absolute horse shit and if you don't have something unique to provide just spare me the time and everybody elses.

Life, it's already too distracting and concerning enough without the partisan politics lies and bullshit.

I AM SAYING CAPITALISM IS THE CORRECT COURSE OF ACTION. ANY OTHER SYSTEM IS WRONG. CAPITALISM IS THE ONLY CORRECT SYSTEM. HOWEVER, the current system is flawed, beyond flawed. And needs correction before it destroys all of us. Plain and simple.

And what's sad above all else is that the same people trying to cheat the system has brainwashed everybody else in the system to think that questioning it is heresy. SAD! DEPRESSING!

Spoiler: <->

Sheeple

 

[NuclearID]

So what again? Please spare me your party policy because I don't care if you're a Democrat or Republican both sides are absolute horse shit and if you don't have something unique to provide just spare me the time and everybody elses.

Life, it's already too distracting and concerning enough without the partisan politics lies and bullshit.

I AM SAYING CAPITALISM IS THE CORRECT COURSE OF ACTION. ANY OTHER SYSTEM IS WRONG. CAPITALISM IS THE ONLY CORRECT SYSTEM. HOWEVER, the current system is flawed, beyond flawed. And needs correction before it destroys all of us. Plain and simple.

And what's sad above all else is that the same people trying to cheat the system has brainwashed everybody else in the system to think that questioning it is heresy. SAD! DEPRESSING!

Spoiler: <->

Sheeple

Capitalism is not the problem. Uncontrolled capitalism is.

I am not attacking capitalism as a system, IT IS THE ONLY SYSTEM TO WORK, PROVEN. I am attacking what happens when it loses its restraints and starts serving concentrated power more than the broader society that makes it possible.

If you believe in disciplined capitalism, competition, and guardrails, then we are not arguing about the same thing.

If you believe the current imbalance is acceptable or inevitable, then that is where we disagree.

My actual argument has been the same the whole time... capitalism works, but only when it is kept in balance.

And anyone saying the current American society is balanced in the capitalistic sense is absolutely batshit crazy out of their minds. FULL STOP.

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

That is my theory. Not utopia. Not equal outcomes. Not handouts solving everything. Balance, discipline, and limits.

Okay, I accept your argument. I may or may not agree with it. Maybe some aspects yes, some no.

I have two parts in me that war against each other.

The first is an American that bristles at government interference outside what the Constitution proscribes.

The other is a Christian that wants people to be responsible for others in charity.