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Iran Being a Terrorist State Debate & Weather They Should Have Nuclear Weapons

I think “Babies in an oven” is a qualification as “Terrorist”

See not so hard to ID bad guys.

🤔 but you point is taken. 👍
that's what I'm saying; though, governments can spin a narrative. The nazi's did just that for their own people while painting all jews as bad. they painted the jews as the enemy, and the state caused it and enforced it.
 
Terrorist or Freedom Fighter, depends which side you're on. Often times both from different perspectives.
👇
Not to mention the terrorist organization he mentioned are war time or revolutionary terrorist. Iran is not at war or fighting a revolution.
Iran embodies the true definition of a terrorist state. Its regime funds terror solely to kill innocent civilians and instill fear not in the name of freedom, revolution, or defense. Iran is not engaged in a legitimate war or justifiable cause.

👉 No, these are pure acts of terrorism, driven by a desire to spread death and destruction against all who do not submit to the Iranian leadership’s oppressive ideology. It's impossible to justify or defend such grotesque actions.
 
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Iran embodies the true definition of a terrorist state. Its regime funds terror solely to kill innocent civilians and instill fear—not in the name of freedom, revolution, or defense. Iran is not engaged in a legitimate war or justifiable cause.
That! That right there is why I like having you around!
Absolutely perfect.

Outstanding! 👍👍
 
Honestly, why shouldn't they have a nuclear weapon? it protects the country from outside influences and power. Imagine if we didn't have one. Nuclear weapons stop war and stop countries from invading you: militarily.
Think of it this way. A society or say a community might have some loosely defined social norms or even laws
Whether they’re codified into law with official sanctions or not.
There is an accepted norm that the communities muddle along with.

A common one is restrictions enforced against individuals who have proven themselves to be dangerous to themselves or others. Their restricted from owning weapons or operating a vehicle or even living alone or free.

The same principle loosely exist among nations and nuclear weapons.
There is no clearly defined or universally accepted and endorsed rules regarding which nations can own nukes.
But there is a generally accepted set of norms for nations that can or cannot possess nukes.
This is applied to Iran, Iran has a history of supporting terrorist groups throughout the region.
Is this a fair interpretation of an international law. No
It’s vague and generally accepted norm to prevent the spread of nations who possess nukes.

I’ve argued because of DPRK’s nukes that Japan ROC and ROK should all strongly consider developing their own nukes.
So that same thing applies to Iran. Except of course that most nations in the west and ME do not trust how Iran might behave if they possess nukes.

So in the end regarding which nations possess nukes. It comes back to national will to build them and national will of others to prevent that from happening.

Right or wrong and fairness has little to do with it.
 
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There's some other reasoning here too that one of you touched on that didn't elaborate on: motivations and ideology for nuclear or potentially nuclear state. Religious fundamentalists would have a much lower threshold than other states with it since they'd be martyrs in heaven if they ended up dying themselves in relatiation after having launched nuclear weapons to kill their enemies. South Korea didn't act like Israel when North Korea gained/ were clearly giving signs that they were gaining nuclear weapons because of the nuclear umbrella and the fact that (at least given the nuclear umbrella, if the US would rescind that for South Korea, well, different story) it was just deterrence and insurance of an isolated regime. And as for Russia, well, for the most part their leaders haven't had an urge to press the button to end their enemies in a first strike since it'd end them too. Iran could be a different story, and it's not just the actual state mechanisms itself that could be a danger, but other radical groups within it that might have an easier time getting their hands on them that Iran themselves might not have that much of an easy time controlling.
 
I think American propaganda might be an issue here. What is a terrorist, and what is a valid government? What is the limit of homeland defense, is it invading and imposing law onto foreign lands which is good for a subset of people that is backed by a nuclear arsenal/military? I mean if we look at the history of the development of nuclear deterrence it creates more dialog than it destroys. You're not going to invade a nuclear country, you can do propaganda campaigns and hope the country collapses. I mean can we say the Cubans the united states trained were terrorists, can we say the pkk are terrorists? I mean terrorist is a term coined for a government (individual government entity) to make people afraid of a grouping of people.

If you look at the attacks by the Chechnians on the Russians... they were labeled terrorists because Russia pissed them off and they began to attack Russia. If we look at afgan terrorism the reason why they came here was because we pissed them off over there. It's not logical to think these groups weren't triggered by an action caused by an entity. Can the United States be considered a terrorist entity due to killing civilians in other countries? Where is the line of being a terrorist any attack will likely yield civ issues be it on an economic, military, or manufacturing base.


We are using words to define something that's convenient for us, yet we don't use it on things that aren't for us. The CIA fund terrorst operations, Mossad, and same for Saudi/Turkish/Russian/Iranian groupings. Even Korea (both north and south) somewhat funds terrorist operations.
Modern-day "terrorist groups" are just groups funded by a government in almost every aspect which are used to gain influence in a region and flip it.

IF we look at why these Middle Eastern terror groups got big it's because of the entrance of America and Russia into the region. The reason why afgan is ran by an ISIL origin group is not because of just threats we can look throughout world history where threatening groups still get overthrown (soviets, brits, congo groups, slavik groups, dynasties... and more). So, when more people support a group and defend it, the group maintains power. If most don't believe in the cause the group will fall out. Look at turkey riots/protests and how many are gathered. Look at how many people "Gathered together" after 9/11. Look at how many gathered together after the "border invasion" the Republicans claim.

You have to be more intropsective to the geopolitical whole and not just use a term coined to defend a notion fed to you by a grouping of individuals. The closest thing I can consider a terrorist attack would be the marathon bomber, the subway gassers, and some other situations. When a situation targets individuals directly. Not an economic sector, not a military base, none of that. The truck rammings are a terrorist attack, the beheadings in American culture can be considered a terrorist attack and I would consider it a terrorist attack; though, those people were likely captured because they had connections to intelligence agencies. It's very rare for a random person to get grabbed up by an intelligence network.

So who's truthful, is it something that's fed to you as a kid or what benefits you in the moment, or is the term coined across all different aspects even against your own government?
Like this is some kind of shock? There is and always have been adversarial threats.
Be it nomadic hunters in competition with of tribes, to modern nation states.

They are both held together with accepted norms and values. So for one nation to define with their language an adversarial nation and the reasons they’re a threat is not normal?

One can dispute if Iran is a major sponsor of terrorist. Or equate it to what other nations do in the name of just cause.

For me it does not matter once a threshold of intent is passed by my adversary

I know it’s not a popular or enlightened position to take. But at some point they become my enemy. To ignore that is naive and shortsighted.

Now I do agree nations should try and talk and work to get past there differences. By as I said there is always a threshold that once crossed the adversarial dynamic changes and with that you nations response.
 
There's some other reasoning here too that one of you touched on that didn't elaborate on: motivations and ideology for nuclear or potentially nuclear state. Religious fundamentalists would have a much lower threshold than other states with it since they'd be martyrs in heaven if they ended up dying themselves in relatiation after having launched nuclear weapons to kill their enemies. South Korea didn't act like Israel when North Korea gained/ were clearly giving signs that they were gaining nuclear weapons because of the nuclear umbrella and the fact that (at least given the nuclear umbrella, if the US would rescind that for South Korea, well, different story) it was just deterrence and insurance of an isolated regime. And as for Russia, well, for the most part their leaders haven't had an urge to press the button to end their enemies in a first strike since it'd end them too. Iran could be a different story, and it's not just the actual state mechanisms itself that could be a danger, but other radical groups within it that might have an easier time getting their hands on them that Iran themselves might not have that much of an easy time controlling.
If you look at historical documents, the Soviet Union never wanted to use Nuclear weapons offensively. In fact they thought we were going to bomb them first due to all hands on deck pressure. That's when the Stanislav Petrov situation happened. The same happened in a nuclear submarine by Vasily Arkhipov.


The only danger in my mind with nuclear weapons is that a country will dissolve, the United States will dissolve, Russia will dissolve, France/Germany/South Korea, all it is time and strain on the system for it to collapse. When that happens the weapons are free in the wild which is bad.

Iran isn't due to have a Nuke in 2025 (keep in mind most of the big money on polymarket are insiders and there is heavy correlation with those in polymarket betting high money, and being correct, thus being connected enough to make educated bets).


The American suspected bombing campaign against Iran has not affected it heavily, and they aren't even expected to have 90% before june.


I agree it'll be a unpredictable government with a nuclear weapon, but North Korea was hyped up as insane and unstable and they are doing fine with their current nuclear weapons (hyped up as crazy by American Intelligence). Now, we are doing the same to Iran when it's well known both Iran and NK fund terrorist groups and hacking groups. Israel is also considered a more radicalized country in terms of religion base. They haven't done anything with theirs either when many countries said they'd do something bad and crazy with them.

When you risk your entire ideology dying to a nuclear response/attack you won't risk it. Nuclear weapons are defensive and used when your ideology is in threat of extinction via outside sources. Natural internal sources don't justify it.

Else USSR would have self detonated.

Israel nor North Korea are facing extinction which is why they haven't had to use them offensively. the USSR/RU never faced extinction via an outside source which means their ideology wasn't going to go extinct via an outside force. WW2 the threat of extinction for many ideologies were on the map and America used it offensively, and were willing to use it against Germany.

Look at American historical production, Recruitment, and other key metrics at the time and you'll understand why they used the Nuke. In addition they had a strict timeframe to use the nuke because it was known Germany was creating one themselves so America wanted to end the war quicker because if Germany had the time to make it, it'd become a stalemate because they could then defend themselves and their ideology with the nuke. (or possibly) use it to swing themselves back into the war till America produced one, then they lock each other into a stalemate of willing to destroy to preserve idology from outside military influence.


KEY: The only reason why Germany didn't beat America with getting a nuclear weapon was because of British SAS bombing the facilities. That is the single biggest point during the whole war that secured allied victory along with the dropping of the bombs on Japan. But you aren't going to see much of that advertised in the history books because it's not good for american superiority ideology.


Nuclear weapons protect ideologies from outside pressures. Not internal pressures.
 
Great example: Was the nazi regime a terrorist organization? To anyone outside of that arena yes. To people born in the country raised under the country that lived under that government, likely not. The same goes for those born under Hutu/Tutsi rule in Rwanda. The other group can be considered "terrorists", but your own group is exempt.

We support the PKK (United states) yet Turkey considers it a terrorist group... so who's correct? Is it your home country and you don't question your home, or do you agree that it's a terrorist group? Terrorist group is a buzzword to enforce hate for a group that isn't meeting your country's goals of advancement.

Turkey says PKK is a terrorist group. America says it isn't and we actively fund them... who's right? The nazi's said jews were an enemy, and the rest of the world said no... who's right? Eurpoe Says Ukraine needs hep, America says they need to negotiate, who's right?

Azov Batallion is known to have nazi connections and symbolism... Ukraine says they aren't nazi, American groups and Russian groups are saying they are...so who's really right?

Let that sink in for a moment.
Both are.
 
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