UA-RU | April 1st-10th | DISCUSSION

[Obreid]

The people basically put the gun to their government's back and said "continue". "If you choose this hard road, walk it until the end with us. Don't let our sacrifice be meaningless." It seems that, as of now, Russia has more democracy than your place, ironic.

Sooo one day the notion of removing Putin is laughable. Now the gov has a gun to their back?
Thats rich.

But you right it’s a war and it will continue and spread.
What’s the big surprise, it’s the history of the world.
Anyone who thinks the post Cold War world was normal is a fool.
Western leaders are too short sighted and fearful to do what’s necessary to bring it to an end.

 

[Obreid]

Russian public is furious, i can't even explain how much.

Don’t care there just as big of fools as many westerners

 

[Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱]

Friendly reminder attack the argument not the person. Ongoing conversation has been more than acceptable. Just see potential for this conversation to get heated. Thank you @everyone just trying to be proactive!

 

[Citizen-21]

With the utmost respect, don't you think you should atleast be aware that there is alot of disinformation coming from Russia on things in Ukraine

Yes, i agree, what is coming from official Russian propaganda - all that is fine, nothing of these atrocities is happening, don't panic, all good etc. I do not believe them. My line is going against the position of Russian government. You have no idea what i do on the Russian net and how heavily i criticize them.
My sources are strictly non-official.

With the utmost respect
But perhaps we can look at each side objectively

Wasted words, i sense no respect, no objectiveness. No offense. Just bring me facts, don't mince words.

Perhaps the Russians are treating Ukranian POWs in hospitals

We already got visual confirmation from Ukrainian side that their people turned back fine. Except for shaved heads on some of them, for some reason.

perhaps even there are POWs being sent back to Russia with horrible mistreatment

We are working on it. I'm checking up through my channels at Crimean hospitals who are receiving no indications of such treatment to POW's from their point. This is expectable, such radicalism happens at northern parts of Ukraine of Kyiv-Kharkiv line. POW's in this conditions are coming from those areas. All footage of Ukrainian war crimes has been filmed from that part of country.

Maybe they've been made up by the Russian government in order to spur support for the war. The motivation is certainly there

Russian government is covering up for Ukrainian atrocities. They are out of my area of trust, same for many folks i know. That's why the public is pushing.

I am not suggesting that such disinformation can't exist in the West, but there is a level of certainty to what you are saying that can be dangerous, and certainly makes you more easily controlled by the people that want you to think certain things.

As of Western propaganda machine on control over society, it is incredibly powerful, especially when applied to a demoralised nation, just as Bezmenov said:
"As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter anymore. A person who is demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell him nothing, even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents and pictures. ...he will refuse to believe it... That's the tragedy of the situation of demoralization" - Yuri Bezmenov, year 1983.
I experimented and proven that by applying the proofs and evidence to selected people. Not just about this topic, but many others, even before all this war started. It doesn't work at all, he was right. One of the reason why i mostly refrained from debating or public activity on Western sources.

and certainly makes you more easily controlled by the people that want you to think certain things.

I've learned English language to escape exactly from that. To escape from Russian censorship, only to find out that it's just a petty laid-back attempts. when compared to brutal Western censorhip machine. I've been looking to broad my horizons but i found only restrictions and oppression out here.
I never believed Russian government and i still don't. But to think these certain things made me those, to who i faced years ago - Westerners, and now, Ukrainians. I heed no attention to words , it is the actions that disgusts me.

 

[Obreid]

With the utmost respect, don't you think you should atleast be aware that there is alot of disinformation coming from Russia on things in Ukraine. I know you may say that well, in the west there is alot of disinformation, and sure, that may be true.

But perhaps we can look at each side objectively, and realize that what we hear from our side may not be what is actually happening. Perhaps the Russians are treating Ukranian POWs in hospitals, perhaps even there are POWs being sent back to Russia with horrible mistreatment, but neither of those facts are absolute. Maybe they've been made up by the Russian government in order to spur support for the war. The motivation is certainly there.

I am not suggesting that such disinformation can't exist in the West, but there is a level of certainty to what you are saying that can be dangerous, and certainly makes you more easily controlled by the people that want you to think certain things.

It’s not certainly he’s implying. It’s called picking a side and propaganda.
All nations and gov do it.
People whine today the Lincoln violated the constitution and shut down southern sympathetic newspapers.
WTF your in a war 10 of thousands were firing on some days. You do what you have to do to win the war and end the fighting quickly and as completely as possible. Or you don’t go to war in the first place.

 

[Obreid]

Wasted words, i sense no respect, no objectiveness. No offense. Just bring me facts, don't mince words.

You brought no provable facts either just opinions.

 

[Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱]

It’s called picking a side

When standing for international norms and integrity I don't see that as picking a side.

Just acknowledging the facts isn't picking a side. Russia is invading, Russia started the war, and Russia chooses to keep the war going on a independent sovereign nation.

It's not about what side. It's about acknowledging the facts that the Russian invasion and any consequences of the war is on Putins hands souly. Straight facts, no opinions, and no picking sides.

I'd love for Russian enegery to be sold on the global market and so would everyone else, everyone loves cheap energy prices!

What no one wants is a nation on Russias level causing global instability weather economically or militarily it seems every 5-8 years. Facts not picking a side.

 

[Obreid]

It’s not certainly he’s implying. It’s called picking a side and propaganda.
All nations and gov do it.
People whine today the Lincoln violated the constitution and shut down southern sympathetic newspapers.
WTF your in a war 10 of thousands were firing on some days. You do what you have to do to win the war and end the fighting quickly and as completely as possible. Or you don’t go to war in the first place.

I’ve evaluated the news and positions based upon the Ukrainian response to the invasion, they fight. Russian soldiers have not been so well motivated. We can dither about who is right or who motivated by propaganda. It’s irrelevant and moot now at this point isn’t it.
Get in the fight and end it or get out of the way.
You speak of Russian conviction to press the war how many volunteer brigades of Russia men have shown up to join the fight, numbers?
How many units from Russian federation nations have said to hell with this and went back home?

 

[Citizen-21]

You brought no provable facts either just opinions.

Yes, it is because i see no sense bringing it here.
There is a footage of such quality, one can call them "unacceptable" to post on this resource. So, bear with my somewhat unacceptable behavior, rather than unacceptable footage. Time will tell, anyway.
and i can't prove anything to a person who doesn't know Russian language either. If you've read me previously you could see that whenever i do, i make complex rundown on original Russian language footage, translation and post a transcription so any person could run it through machine translation and make sure themselves that i'm not bluffing.

It’s not certainly he’s implying. It’s called picking a side and propaganda.
All nations and gov do it.
People whine today the Lincoln violated the constitution and shut down southern sympathetic newspapers.
WTF your in a war 10 of thousands were firing on some days. You do what you have to do to win the war and end the fighting quickly and as completely as possible. Or you don’t go to war in the first place.

You are right, it is time to pick sides, nothing wrong with that. This is also why i left the Staff and asked to replace me with someone less diverse from the site's origin. Bring in an actual Westerner, and to hell with it's "wide coverage, difference of beliefs, non-bias analysis, opinion from other side etc", nobody values that anymore, don't waste effort and time.
We are at war.
Ideological war already put our people in such position, we won't recover in decades, or centuries.

 

[Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱]

I'd love for Russian enegery to be sold on the global market and so would everyone else, everyone loves cheap energy prices!

What no one wants is a nation on Russias level causing global instability weather economically or militarily it seems every 5-8 years. Facts not picking a side.

So even if Putin declared peace today. All aggressive actions by Putin STOP TODAY would NOT MATTER.

The rest of the world is and will grow without Russian products or energy in the global market. It's done set in stone.

There is nothing and I mean nothing that will change the markets choice to find other providers for everything removing Russia from the global market. As a very big investor who talks to other investors Russia is dead no matter what.

NOTE: It's the private sector choice to do this not the government. The private sector has come to see Russia as a very risky empty whole to invest in in the foreseeable future.

No one wants their money held hostage for 3 weeks on a supposed open stock market, market may be open now but holding foreign investors money hostage ruined any possible hope of recovery. No one wants to throw money at somthing that has almost no hope of maturing in Russia. No one wants to risk investing in somthing that could become federalized and stocks ransacked.

 

[Obreid]

Just acknowledging the facts isn't picking a side. Russia is invading, Russia started the war, and Russia chooses to keep the war going on a independent sovereign nation

You adroit enough to know about understand the “rules based order” argument vs Russians and chinas poly centric international order model.
Depending upon your alignment and self-interest it’s all just about picking a side that will best enhance your position.
Neither side is universally just, it’s always about projection of power and influence.

 

[Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱]

You adroit enough to know about understand the “rules based order” argument vs Russians and chinas poly centric international order model.
Depending upon your alignment and self-interest it’s all just about picking a side that will best enhance your position.
Neither side is universally just, it’s always about projection of power and influence.

I see what your saying. But standing for international rule of law & stability shouldn't be picking a side. BECAUSE that benefits everyone everywhere full stop.

 

[Citizen-21]

The rest of the world is and will grow without Russian products or energy in the global market. It's done set in stone.

That would be great.
Then, stop poking your nose into my country. You don't need these resources? Then sit tight at home and enjoy your windmill.

You also just made a point yourself, that all those economy sanctions against Russia would be imposed anyway. It's all set in stone. Whether this invasion happened or not - Russia would be sanctioned anyway.

 

[Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱]

You don't need these resources? Then sit tight at home.

There are over 200 nations on this flying rock through space. Russia isn't needed for the world's future to move forward financially or resource wise.

 

[Obreid]

Yes, it is because i see no sense bringing it here.
There is a footage of such quality, one can call them "unacceptable" to post on this resource. So, bear with my somewhat unacceptable behavior, rather than unacceptable footage. Time will tell, anyway.

Yes time will tell I would note that I was the one who reluctantly brought the footage which claimed Russian soldiers were being shot to the forum so that it’s possibility would be recognized and analyzed.
Events and facts do matter

 

[Citizen-21]

There are over 200 nations on this flying rock through space. Russia isn't needed for the world's future to move forward financially or resource wise.

You just quoted Hitler. Do you even understand what you are saying?

 

[Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱]

Whether this invasion happened or not

No never said that. It's set in stone now after 38 days of a nonsense war. If Putin didnt invade no sanctions would of happened.

Biden was even scrutinized because he refused to sanction Russia until a invasion or war happened. None where slapped on Russia until AFTER invasion.

 

[Splinters]

Then, stop poking your nose into my country.

Russia is currently waging a senseless war against people you use to call brothers. I think that at this point you're asking a bit too much of the West in that regard

 

[Citizen-21]

Russia is currently waging a senseless war against people you use to call brothers. I think that at this point you're asking a bit too much of the West in that regard

Shouldn't have taught our brothers Nazism and turned them into a weapon-state against us. Expansion and war waging are done not just through weaponry, but mostly - in mind nowadays. Don't be that naive, nor acting innocent.

 

[Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱]

Shouldn't have taught our brothers Nazism

Ok I shouldn't have to point out how false this statment is. But this is me pointing out how false this is, eveyone here should know that. The leader of Ukraine is a jew for god sake.