• Guests may view all public nodes. However, you must be registered to post.

UA-RU | DISCUSSIONS

Status
Not open for further replies.
Agreed! Keep pushing until they start to fall back, don't give Russia a break or a chance to regroup/recoup.

Keep showing no mercy with the new missile systems pouring into Ukrainian hands, and we have to keep helping Ukraine have the means to take everything back from which Russia has wrongly taken. Though unfortunately Ukrainians will never be able to take back their loved ones lost from a senseless war of agression waged by a truly evil, sadistic, autocrat.
 
Well just chalk it up to the same type of disinformation as Ukraine is full of fascist or better yet corrupt.
Or nato is going to lay siege Moscow.
These accusation coming from Russia where hilarious.
What do you expect from nations at war. You fight war on all fronts and lying and disinformation is expected.
If you don’t use it you don’t want to win bad enough.

ok, but there is a detail to think about. Let's suppose that it is not true NATO is besieging Moscow and that is disinformation. In this case, however, the pourpouse of this kind of disinformation is clear: to make Russians support the war. It would have a sense.
Let's now suppose that it is a disinformation too, that Russia has finished its weapons. Even this, we could immagine is finalized to make people support the war, but if Russia in 5 mounths has not finished its weapons and continues to use them, what is the sense to repeat that continuously as litany, as a rosary? So, the cases are the following:
1. after 100.000 times we have heard that Russia has finished its weapons, now, at 100.001 it is true, but it doesn't seem so;
2. it is a kind of disinformation who disinforms no one;
3. it is a kind of disinformation with a pourpose that I don't undestand, like I didn't understand why they said that Shoigu had an heart attack, that Gerasimov was removed, that Dvornikov had been killed, when all these things always reveled to be false.

I think we are in the case n. 3. Why to say, for example, that Shoigu had an heart attack if it is not true? It seems a kind of a very stupid disinformation destined to be revealed for what it is: an enourmous fake-news. However, I have undestood it has a sense. Maybe Mr. Shoigu said to his lover: "I must vanish for some time, I give to you this phone number, but DON'T use it except for very very important emergencies!"
Meanwhile NATO HUMINT know that Shoigu has a lover and controls in some way her phone traffic.
At a certain point Shoigu lover heard that he had an heart attack, so she gets worried, she think it is a case of emergency and she calls.
Or maybe the contrary: Shoigu, imagining that his lover is worried, he telephone to her.
So, a strage phone call is detected toward or from "hot" points in Ukriane... maybe Shoigu is there! Let's give the coordinates to the artillery.
I make an approssimative description, just to make clear that spreding voices like that, it could be rewarding.
So, that apparent useless disinformation, has actually a very important pourpose.

So, why to spread around that Russia has finished wapons, when it is clear that is false? Someone is supposed to believe in that. Who? And with which pourpose?

Agree. It is an obvious falsehood: "Russia has committed nearly 85% of its military to the war in Ukraine." Reported by PBS Nick Schifrin, and claiming this is from: "from Senior U.S. Defense Official on the war in Ukraine." Does the official have a name?

Because I would like to know who we are paying that can't do basic math. Please get that official some remedial mathematics courses.

Russia has 1 million active military personnel, 2 million reserve military personnel.
The obvious falsehood that Russia has committed "85 percent" of its military to Ukraine is clearly absurd. You don't need to be an "intelligence" or "defense" official to realize that. I would hope.

So for context, understand the 3 million combined Russian military would be about 7-8.5 percent of the actual population of Ukraine. So basically this PBS reporter claims a "USA Defense Official" (who shall not be named?) wants us to believe that the Russian military are almost 10 percent of the population of Ukraine now. And no one even thinks to ask ?????
(Imagine if a "media" "reporter" was claiming that USA had 85 percent of its military fighting in Iraq War. People who can do math would literally laugh at the report. But here when it is Russia, the same level of misinformation can be taken as a sober intelligence assessment. And no one even asks us to suspend disbelief, because it is assumed that we will, because after all, it is about Russia.)

It is a reasonable question to ask why people publish such obvious misinformation.
I would like to believe they really don't understand what they are stating, but there is also a dedicated information operations misinformation campaign (not only within Russia and Ukraine, but also among other nations) on the Russia/Ukraine war. The misinformation campaigns further undermine public trust, at a uniquely bad time in history.

On the other hand, such obvious misinformation from this PBS reporter helps provide another "media" source to block on social media, and of course Twitter could care less about such misinformation - because it is "good misinformation."

And the really sad thing is that every time they make such obvious misinformation statements, other people will start to ask themselves... "and what else are they not telling the truth about?" This does not help in a war against Russia and its cruel oppression against Ukrainian people. It only helps Russia.

I completely agree.
 
Last edited:
There is a good argument that Russia has 125 battalion tactical groups (BTGs) with 800 soldiers in Ukraine. That is 100,000 military personnel. Or you could argue there are 168 BTGs (134,400).

But 850,000 military personnel (among just active)? Because that is what 85 percent would really mean.
The balance would be made up of (mostly unwilling) conscripts whose combat value on a modern battlefield is negligible, and who are in any case not allowed to deploy outside of Russia unless martial law is declared. The 170-odd BTGs, manned by contract soldiers, also account for the vast bulk of Russia's material assets - tanks, artillery and such. You know, the stuff you need to actually prosecute a war.

Ever wondered how a country with an economy the size of the Netherlands is able to field the world's second largest army? Simple answer: it can't. Russia does not have 650 thousand additional fully equipped troops ready to go. I'm not defending the 85% remark, but equally so I would caution against reading too much into headcount figures.
 
However, there were an other dude who thought that Russia had finished its weapons, untill he realized that Russia had a lot of weapons, much more then he imagined. So, maybe it will be better to review our certitudes.
 
ok, but there is a detail to think about. Let's suppose that it is not true NATO is besieging Moscow and that is disinformation. In this case, however, the pourpouse of this kind of disinformation is clear: to make Russians support the war. It would have a sense.
<snip> Made absolutely zero sense.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
However, there were an other dude who thought that Russia had finished its weapons, untill he realized that Russia had a lot of weapons, much more then he imagined. So, maybe it will be better to review our certitudes.
Well Russia’s in the war where are they. You keep saying this and claiming Russia’s holding back some pulsating well armed military that is soon going to March to Poland and Romania’s boarder.

Oh I know launching missiles at the port of Odessa again two days after a deal is made to allow Ukraine grain exports.
How convenient
 
<snip> Made absolutely zero sense.

<snip>

"ok, but there is a detail to think about. Let's suppose that it were not true that NATO was besieging Moscow and that, therefore, this statement can be considered as disinformation. However, in this case, the pourpouse of this kind of disinformation would be clear: it would be intended to make Russians support the war and this would have a sense."

Better?

For what it concerns what you said about Odessa, it is completely an other question. I'm not arguing that, considered that Russia has not finished its weapons, then it should be right that it use them in order to destroy the grain.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So, Russia bombs port facilities in Odessa one day after signing the grain deal, and then officially claims it had nothing to do with said bombing. Honestly, I'm at a loss as to what kind of strategic advantage they're hoping to wring out of this. On the surface there's absolutely no upside; there are, however, very important downsides:
  • Showing (again) that any deal signed with Putin isn't worth the paper it's written on. This sends a very bad message to any country that might want to strike some sort of deal with Putin, including countries Russia is currently smarming up to (such as China).
  • Making Erdogan look like a fool. Not something Russia would want to do right now - Turkey, after all, is the subject of a tug-of-war between Russia and NATO.
  • Jeopardizing any behind-the-scenes concessions Russia may have gained in exchange for agreeing to this deal in the first place.
Honestly, the only reason I can think about is that this is some sick attempt at sorting wheat from chaff by testing who is willing to toe the line (i.e. doesn't have a problem with Kremlin's official statements regarding this incident). But that's a major stretch.

I'd actually be willing to entertain the possibility that this one was not Russia's doing. 🤔
 
So, Russia bombs port facilities in Odessa one day after signing the grain deal, and then officially claims it had nothing to do with said bombing. Honestly, I'm at a loss as to what kind of strategic advantage they're hoping to wring out of this. On the surface there's absolutely no upside; there are, however, very important downsides:
  • Showing (again) that any deal signed with Putin isn't worth the paper it's written on. This sends a very bad message to any country that might want to strike some sort of deal with Putin, including countries Russia is currently smarming up to (such as China).
  • Making Erdogan look like a fool. Not something Russia would want to do right now - Turkey, after all, is the subject of a tug-of-war between Russia and NATO.
  • Jeopardizing any behind-the-scenes concessions Russia may have gained in exchange for agreeing to this deal in the first place.
Honestly, the only reason I can think about is that this is some sick attempt at sorting wheat from chaff by testing who is willing to toe the line (i.e. doesn't have a problem with Kremlin's official statements regarding this incident). But that's a major stretch.

I'd actually be willing to entertain the possibility that this one was not Russia's doing. 🤔
I think Putin probably planned this. He wanted to show to his friends he's trying to secure their food, without actually helping Ukraine. So, he gets a deal made to export the grain, but then blows up the port to stop Ukraine from financially benefiting from it, all whilst saving face with his friendly countries.
Note the greatest importers of Ukrainian grain:
1658604553008.png
How interesting that Iran is on that list... (source: https://ukragroconsult.com/en/news/top-10-countries-buyers-of-ukrainian-grain/ ).
Perhaps Putin's Iranian visit was less about drone procurement, but actually about grain exports to Iran?
 
I think Putin probably planned this. He wanted to show to his friends he's trying to secure their food, without actually helping Ukraine. So, he gets a deal made to export the grain, but then blows up the port to stop Ukraine from financially benefiting from it.
Interesting. But any damage a handful of missiles may cause won't really matter in the grand scheme of things. It's unclear what exactly they struck in the port, but I would be surprised if this had any major impact on the grain export operation - if indeed Russia is willing to go along with it. We'll find out soon enough.
Perhaps Putin's Iranian visit was less about drone procurement, but actually about grain exports to Iran?
Good point. But he would certainly demand something in return. Hence, drones.
 
<snip, getting heated, change subject not about improper English translations>
So, Russia bombs port facilities in Odessa one day after signing the grain deal, and then officially claims it had nothing to do with said bombing. Honestly, I'm at a loss as to what kind of strategic advantage they're hoping to wring out of this. On the surface there's absolutely no upside; there are, however, very important downsides:
  • Showing (again) that any deal signed with Putin isn't worth the paper it's written on. This sends a very bad message to any country that might want to strike some sort of deal with Putin, including countries Russia is currently smarming up to (such as China).
  • Making Erdogan look like a fool. Not something Russia would want to do right now - Turkey, after all, is the subject of a tug-of-war between Russia and NATO.
  • Jeopardizing any behind-the-scenes concessions Russia may have gained in exchange for agreeing to this deal in the first place.
Honestly, the only reason I can think about is that this is some sick attempt at sorting wheat from chaff by testing who is willing to toe the line (i.e. doesn't have a problem with Kremlin's official statements regarding this incident). But that's a major stretch.

I'd actually be willing to entertain the possibility that this one was not Russia's doing. 🤔
so do I, but I don't know. All is possible.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So much for their friend that was going to save them right? No, as I said at the beginning China has its own interests and a nation cannot survive just trading with its neighbors.
I'm genuinely surprised by the lack of overt Chinese support for Russia.
Either the Chinese are leaving the Russians high and dry, or:
There's a lot of support for Russia, it's just all behind the scenes to try to maintain good relations with the West and avoid economic repercussions (more likely in my opinion).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Torch

Gary Kasparov's leadership in Human Rights Foundation (HRF) is very specific in referencing select areas of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). The ICCPR is based on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), which of course begins with a commitment on the Universal Human Rights of Life. This is also in the ICCPR in Part III, Article 6, Item 1: "Every human being has the inherent right to life."

Gary and HRF want to focus on tyrants and liberty exclusively. But life also matters as part of universal human rights. When you leave that out of your major campaigns, you are missing a key part of human rights.

There is no question that Russia has a corrupt and cruel government, that Putin has performed monstrous activities against innocents. But rescuing innocents is more than an upraised fist at Putin and Russia.
 
The attack on southern port of Odesa was cruel - but we are still getting facts. We need to Russia and Ukraine to reach a cease-fire, but I would also point out, as cruel as this attack was on Odesa port, it is not stopping business. There are claims that there was a military objective; while we can denounce as "Putin is a liar," we also don't know that for a fact either.

"But the infrastructure minister, Oleksandr Kubrakov, said on Facebook that “we continue technical preparations for the launch of exports of agricultural products from our ports”."

Meantime, a ceasefire is needed to stop the missiles and the killing. No dirt is worth this waste of innocent human lives. There are other ways to solve this problem.
 
but then blows up the port
But the Odesa port is not actually "blown up." And no one goes back and corrects themselves on this. This is why it is important to wait for facts with war in Ukraine/Russia part of the world. It is like believing either Israel or the Palestinians. Both will send reports that say what their people want to hear, and the facts are often something totally different altogether.

And with respect, "blowing up" the Odesa port would look VERY different than what we saw in this missile strike. What happened is nothing remotely like Odesa port being "blown up." There was a very limited explosion there. Totally different. That doesn't excuse Russia's cruel actions. But it is a fact. The Odesa port is 109 acres and 52 piers. And our media is writing as if the entire Odesa port has been destroyed, as if it were some suburban U.S. lake-front pier for pleasure boats.

And in fact, Russia (the former USSR) could actually "blow up" the Odesa port. We don't want that. The world does not benefit from that. And the efforts to continue to escalate war in Ukraine really only help arms manufacturers.
 
Last edited:
Agree. It is an obvious falsehood: "Russia has committed nearly 85% of its military to the war in Ukraine." Reported by PBS Nick Schifrin, and claiming this is from: "from Senior U.S. Defense Official on the war in Ukraine." Does the official have a name?

Because I would like to know who we are paying that can't do basic math. Please get that official some remedial mathematics courses.

Russia has 1 million active military personnel, 2 million reserve military personnel.
The obvious falsehood that Russia has committed "85 percent" of its military to Ukraine is clearly absurd. You don't need to be an "intelligence" or "defense" official to realize that. I would hope.

So for context, understand the 3 million combined Russian military would be about 7-8.5 percent of the actual population of Ukraine. So basically this PBS reporter claims a "USA Defense Official" (who shall not be named?) wants us to believe that the Russian military are almost 10 percent of the population of Ukraine now. And no one even thinks to ask ?????
(Imagine if a "media" "reporter" was claiming that USA had 85 percent of its military fighting in Iraq War. People who can do math would literally laugh at the report. But here when it is Russia, the same level of misinformation can be taken as a sober intelligence assessment. And no one even asks us to suspend disbelief, because it is assumed that we will, because after all, it is about Russia.)

It is a reasonable question to ask why people publish such obvious misinformation.
I would like to believe they really don't understand what they are stating, but there is also a dedicated information operations misinformation campaign (not only within Russia and Ukraine, but also among other nations) on the Russia/Ukraine war. The misinformation campaigns further undermine public trust, at a uniquely bad time in history.

On the other hand, such obvious misinformation from this PBS reporter helps provide another "media" source to block on social media, and of course Twitter could care less about such misinformation - because it is "good misinformation."

And the really sad thing is that every time they make such obvious misinformation statements, other people will start to ask themselves... "and what else are they not telling the truth about?" This does not help in a war against Russia and its cruel oppression against Ukrainian people. It only helps Russia.
" obvious misinformation" I heard someone calls this FAKE NEWS!
 
" obvious misinformation" I heard someone calls this FAKE NEWS!
The addiction of too many in USA/Western media and too many in politics/government for outlandish hyperbole is unhelpful in building social cohesiveness and public trust. The hyperbole becomes so massive that any random person can point out "exaggeration" and/or open falsehoods. Public trust is key in a society.

Public trust is necessary. You drive on the roads, with the general confidence that people will stop at red lights. You may watch and be careful, but you generally expect them not to be deranged behind the wheel and be a threat to life. If you totally lose that trust, travel grinds to a gridlock. So it is with other aspects of society. Information is not a toy to trick and deceive as so many delight in. It has long-term consequences.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom