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UA-RU-NATO | DISCUSSIONS

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Peace said:
Does not suprise me anything but in Ukraine after he bailed out from his bunker and left Ukraine in the rear view mirror since the 4th.
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Wow that’s interesting.
How many public appearances have we seen of Putin since the war started vs Zelinski.
It’s kind of lop sided.
Putin won’t even have face to face meetings with his generals most of the time. He zoomed his last meeting with his security council. He can’t even meet his own advisers face to face.
So who’s really hiding?
 
Seriously said:
US in two costly military conflicts with both Russia and China either directly involved with troops and equipment or suppling all of the military means to their proxy country.
There was no nuclear war in over a decade of wars between Korea and Vietnam.
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The difference is that Russia and/or China were in proxy wars. Ukraine is a direct war for Russia and a proxy for the West. So Korea/Vietnam and Ukraine are not comparable for Russia.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
The difference is that Russia and/or China were in proxy wars. Ukraine is a direct war for Russia and a proxy for the West. So Korea/Vietnam and Ukraine are not comparable for Russia.
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That’s true but the escalation to nuclear weapons is a monumental price to pay for pride.
The and many other will pay. I don’t believe that will escalate that far.
A lot depends on how they are treated in the draw down.
We should push for returning at least the pre war territories and carefully give Russia a way out.
Or maybe those in the know believe Russia can be pushed to return everything.
With only open source info that seems like a stretch to me. But who knows
 
Seriously said:
Putin needs to come away with something tangible for a negotiated settlement. But he also can not assume to keep all that he now holds.

What is that mix? I have opinions and expressed them here but I of course can’t know what it would actually be.

If the US just withdraws now all of Ukraine will fall. Moldova will follow and there you go.
That’s not an acceptable either.
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This is a major point. The solution isn’t to keep providing weapons and ammo. It is clearly enabling the conflict to continue, which is clearly intended at this point. It’s a politically polarizing issue during an election cycle.

The solution to stop the fighting, as I have said many times is divide Ukraine. East Ukraine to Russia, and West Ukraine to NATO. Have a 10 mile wide demilitarized zone in the middle. Until the time the “Berlin Wall” can come down in Ukraine, this is a viable solution. Putin can declare victory, and NATO gains territory.

This might be like the Koreas for a while, but at least it stopped the DYING.

Throw in an elective repatriation process to the ethnic groups that wish to go to Russia or Ukraine, and each side gets its own government.
 
Totality said:
Your right status quo isn't the solution.

We need to stop holding back and give Ukraine everything it needs to end the war and quickly.
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Give them… what? B-2’s? Our retired F-117 fleet? Short of stealth tech, you can’t end this war as fast as you are thinking. If we gave Ukraine those kinds of weapons, ASSUMING the Ukrainian army had the time to train to be combat effective with them, Putin would take the nuclear option.

You can’t end this with more weapons and ammo. You can only extend it. Our dumbass leaders need to come to the table with a radical solution and stop both Ukrainians and Russians from dying.

East Ukraine. West Ukraine. Solve it in a few decades like we did with Germany. The geopolitical landscape will be wildly different then.
 
Totality said:
Yes it can. We just been doing a shit job of it. Only trickling it in or on a as needed basis.

No. We need to stop holding back and give them everything they need. Not a trickle or bits and pieces here and there.
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And get in a direct confrontation with Russia? Yeah no thanks. Let’s keep our distance. Let Europe put up their fair share.
 
Spyglass said:
Give them… what? B-2’s? Our retired F-117 fleet?
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No funnel them a large supply of weapons they truly need to end this. Give them more, a lot more of the advance systems we been sending recently. Flood Ukraine with patriots, flood Ukraine with long range missiles, build dozens of artillery plants along the polish border to send them the weapons as soon as there made, give them as many F-16 they need to take back every inch of land Russia has brutally taken from them and end the Russian genocidal rampage.
 
Totality said:
No funnel them a large supply of weapons they truly need to end this. Give them more, a lot more of the advance systems we been sending recently. Flood Ukraine with patriots, flood Ukraine with long range missiles, give them as many F-16 they need to take back every inch of land Russia has brutally taken from them and end the Russian genocidal rampage.
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Ok…now what about making sure we have enough for Taiwan? China is just waiting for the moment we become over extended.

This kind of emotional thinking is what loses wars and collapses empires.
 
Oddly enough the weapons we are sending Ukraine will not be the same weapons we will be sending to Taiwan. At least not the large majority of it. Totally different battlefield & enemy freind, requires different tools. Taiwan won't be fighting a trench World War I style fight & will all liklyhood have US direct military backing.
 
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Spyglass said:
Give them… what? B-2’s? Our retired F-117 fleet? Short of stealth tech, you can’t end this war as fast as you are thinking. If we gave Ukraine those kinds of weapons, ASSUMING the Ukrainian army had the time to train to be combat effective with them, Putin would take the nuclear option.

You can’t end this with more weapons and ammo. You can only extend it. Our dumbass leaders need to come to the table with a radical solution and stop both Ukrainians and Russians from dying.

East Ukraine. West Ukraine. Solve it in a few decades like we did with Germany. The geopolitical landscape will be wildly different then.
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If only we had let Russia keep some of the Georgian territory they wanted they wouldn’t have invaded Ukraine…

The decision to fight is Ukraine’s. If they’re not willing to cede any territory then we should continue to supply them with any conventional means they request.
 
Totality said:
Oddly enough the weapons we are sending Ukraine will not be the same weapons we will be sending to Taiwan. At least not the large majority of it. Totally different battlefield & enemy freind, requires different tools. Taiwan won't be fighting a trench World War I style fight & will all liklyhood have US direct military backing.
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Why does the United States have to bankroll the world’s wars? The US isn’t spending 170 billion in Ukraine if there isn’t something in it for them.

All I am saying, is that Ukraine is being dragged on for reasons we can only hope to understand, and it’s really simple to end a war like this, but no one wants to come to the table with a solution other than more weapons. It’s clearly not working.
 
Spyglass said:
Ok…now what about making sure we have enough for Taiwan?
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Totality said:
Ukraine totally different battlefield & enemy freind, requires different tools. Taiwan won't be fighting a trench World War I style fight & will all liklyhood have US direct military backing.
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👇
"U.S. forces need a lot of things to make sure China can’t conquer Taiwan, but they don’t need anything that’s going to Ukraine, the commander of Indo-Pacific Command told lawmakers last week."
https://twitter.com/x/status/1650865246783909888
 
Spyglass said:
Why does the United States have to bankroll the world’s wars? The US isn’t spending 170 billion in Ukraine if there isn’t something in it for them.

All I am saying, is that Ukraine is being dragged on for reasons we can only hope to understand, and it’s really simple to end a war like this, but no one wants to come to the table with a solution other than more weapons. It’s clearly not working.
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Because we can.
 
Spyglass said:
Why does the United States have to bankroll the world’s wars? The US isn’t spending 170 billion in Ukraine if there isn’t something in it for them.

All I am saying, is that Ukraine is being dragged on for reasons we can only hope to understand, and it’s really simple to end a war like this, but no one wants to come to the table with a solution other than more weapons. It’s clearly not working.
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If it's so easy, what's the solution? Serious question btw, not being sarcy.

Cede currently occupied UA territory to RU? Something else?
 
uamcplyr said:
If it's so easy, what's the solution? Serious question btw, not being sarcy.

Cede currently occupied UA territory to RU? Something else?
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East Ukraine, West Ukraine. Elective repatriation of ethnic Russians to east Ukraine. West Ukraine becomes NATO. Zelensky is President of NATO side, and Putin is President of Russian side.

Tell me why this wouldn’t work?
 
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