UA-RU-NATO War | Discussions | Jun. 1st/Sep. 13th 2025

[RiffRaff]

When the nukes are in the air is about all the warning you’ll get. DEFCON numbers are useless.

Depends. If you're talking about a surprise first strike, you're correct. By the time we find out and confirm it as accurate, our DEFCON 1 alert will only give citizens a few minutes of warning time, if we're lucky. However, in the case of a crisis that slowly escalates to a nuclear launch, the DEFCON levels will give people more time to prepare, especially if we go to DEFCON 2 and start recommending evacuations of target areas (something this organization has never done in its 40 year history).

This is precisely why we tell people that DEFCON 5 is the time to make plans and preparations and not to rely solely on DWS for information and alerts.

 

[Snowfall]

Not much longer now. Zelinski offers peace deal and Russia probably looking at ending this sooner than later one way or another

This thing is not ending soon. Russia has no desire to settle and will only accept complete surrender and the ukranians would rather fight till they’re all dead then sue for an unfavorable peace that will end in another invasion in a couple years.

 

[GBS61]

the ukranians would rather fight till they’re all dead then sue for an unfavorable peace that will end in another invasion in a couple years.

False, Zelensky, not the people. My Ukrainian friends living here in Canada hate Zelensky as much as Trump and Putin.
According to them, 25% of Western money is diverted to the black market.
Ukraine was corrupt before the war, even more so today.

 

[Publius]

False, Zelensky, not the people. My Ukrainian friends living here in Canada hate Zelensky as much as Trump and Putin.
According to them, 25% of Western money is diverted to the black market.
Ukraine was corrupt before the war, even more so today.

You know there is such a thing as circular corruption that the predominant reason for any given activity. This is destructive.

For a minute though consider this. When we are reading a story or watching a movie and the protagonist is working and succeeding to achieve an objective we are emotionally supportive of.

And part of that effort to succeed and get things done there is overt bribery or dealing with less savory characters to grease the wheels of progress.
We excuse this as just the cost of doing business.

So defining the war between Russia and Ukraine only as a corrupt quagmire might not be completely fair or accurate.

 

[william]

False, Zelensky, not the people. My Ukrainian friends living here in Canada hate Zelensky as much as Trump and Putin.
According to them, 25% of Western money is diverted to the black market.
Ukraine was corrupt before the war, even more so today.

So, I take it they would prefer to be russian, not Ukrainian or they just hate everybody.

 

[Publius]

Major Ukrainian drone attacks sow chaos at Moscow's airports

Videos published by Russian media showed people sleeping on the floor of Sheremetyevo, Russia's busiest airport by passenger numbers, amid long queues.

www.reuters.com

Can you imagine the angst, uproar, and real coup it would be if Ukraine found a way to disrupt and delay the Moscow subway system

disclaimer if something happens in the next week or so it’s totally a coincidence,
It’s a joke

 

[Irag8er]

Can you imagine the angst, uproar, and real coup it would be if Ukraine found a way to disrupt and delay the Moscow subway system

disclaimer if something happens in the next week or so it’s totally a coincidence,
It’s a joke

Could be "near" future event, depending on what type of long range munitions the U.S. may or may not be giving to Ukraine.

 

[Snowfall]

False, Zelensky, not the people. My Ukrainian friends living here in Canada hate Zelensky as much as Trump and Putin.
According to them, 25% of Western money is diverted to the black market.
Ukraine was corrupt before the war, even more so today.

Glad to know your Ukrainian friends living in Canada represent the opinion of all ukranians.

 

[Publius]

Could be "near" future event, depending on what type of long range munitions the U.S. may or may not be giving to Ukraine.

They already have it, drones. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that

 

[Torch]

Yet another ally and developing power who Trump has guaranteed will turn away from the USA and develop stronger relations with other countries some of whom are not friendly to the USA. These relationships will grow and you can guarantee that post Trump they will not be interested in relationships with the USA. The USA will become isolated and this will be very long term outcome.

Good. If assholes want to support Russia’s killing machine they are not the kind of country we want as an ally.

Besides India has always been fickle. During the Cold War when Nations stood up to be counted for or against Evil, India came down firmly in the middle. Millions born in freedom for the last 30 years have absolutely nothing to thank India for.

I like India. I appreciate their position of hating all colonial powers (the US was not one of them) I understand they share a border with both the crazy evil and the Yellow Hoard. They have differnt priorities than the US. I do get it, except this isn’t about the USA. This war has only cost the USA tons of money and equipment. The Ukraine is not an American Ally. They are not our major trading partner. We are doing this, opposing Russian Murder Inc. because it’s the right damn thing to do.

India should get off her ass and care about someone else for a change. You might sleep better and even have a drop in self loathing with an increase in pride and respect.

Edited to remove bloat

 

[Torch]

Too much?

 

[Publius]

Too much?

Well it was rather blunt but it did raise some relevant points to ponder.

 

[Dr Arthur]

Good. If assholes want to support Russia’s killing machine they are not the kind of country we want as an ally.

Besides India has always been fickle. During the Cold War when Nations stood up to be counted for or against Evil, India came down firmly in the middle. Millions born in freedom for the last 30 years have absolutely nothing to thank India for.

I like India. I appreciate their position of hating all colonial powers (the US was not one of them) I understand they share a border with both the crazy evil and the Yellow Hoard. They have differnt priorities than the US. I do get it, except this isn’t about the USA. This war has only cost the USA tons of money and equipment. The Ukraine is not an American Ally. They are not our major trading partner. We are doing this, opposing Russian Murder Inc. because it’s the right damn thing to do.

India should get off her ass and care about someone else for a change. You might sleep better and even have a drop in self loathing with an increase in pride and respect.

Edited to remove bloat

Wasn't the Philippines a single colony?

 

[Torch]

Well it was rather blunt but it did raise some relevant points to ponder.

Wasn't the Philippines a single colony?

Yes. We didn’t seek it out. It never dawned on us, et al, we would get it.

We didn’t know what to do with it.
We had no troops to patrol it. Commodore Dewey, rear admiral acting, said the Filipinos would make fine citizens. Luzon alone would have become like Guam, independent citizens or maybe Hawaii. However the savage and unsettled south (really really savage) grew into as violent an insurgence as has existed in the modern world 1898-1946. Except for a time out for some Jap killin, who each side liked less, we slaughtered each other.

Deceased US soldiers with missing appendages, could usually be found in their mouths. In return Islamic insurrectionist were buried in pig fat and waterboarding actually made the cover of life magazine in 1902. (It was called a “water cure”

Fast forward extreme carnage including the US dropping atomic bombs on Japanese cities, and we still couldn’t give the Philippines their independence fast enough.

On July 4 1946, they got it and we were mostly out of there except for Clark and Subic and half a dozen other places so I guess we really didn’t leave after all. We did however, hand them the keys and appear to get the hell out of Dodge before we even wound up World War II in 1952.

It most certainly was not our finest hour. Although to be fair, there was certainly a deep state involved fixing to take it. (who knew Brown and root was that old. If you look carefully on the third row behind Dewey on his battleship, you’ll see Cheney**)
Most American didn’t (and don’t) care what happens beyond the then 3 mile limit. Hey we had blacks to suppress and injuns to kill. Busy busy busy, such was the American century.


Assistant secretary of the Navy Roosevelt order Dewey to attack the Spanish and the Philippines without the Secretary of the Navy’s knowledge. President McKinley said “I couldn’t find it on a map within 2000 miles” (might be why they shot him**)

Nobody ever envisioned when we went to war with Spain that they were gonna hand off all their crap to us.

I imagine they were laughing their asses off behind closed doors. Even if they didn’t wanna give it up, they had to feel relived, very much like the French in Vietnam. They were so glad it was over and quite happy to see the US stick its stick in a blender.

We just wanted to have a coaling station (refueling) like a 7/11 convenience store. Instead, Spain declared war on the US. We declared war on (a by now a paper tiger) Spain. The mouse roared and it was on.

**This is a commercial was absolutely not “Schoolhouse Rock” and I’m pretty sure no matter what I said, it didn’t happen that way. Unless it did…

 

[Sentry]

Good. If assholes want to support Russia’s killing machine they are not the kind of country we want as an ally.

Besides India has always been fickle. During the Cold War when Nations stood up to be counted for or against Evil, India came down firmly in the middle. Millions born in freedom for the last 30 years have absolutely nothing to thank India for.

I like India. I appreciate their position of hating all colonial powers (the US was not one of them) I understand they share a border with both the crazy evil and the Yellow Hoard. They have differnt priorities than the US. I do get it, except this isn’t about the USA. This war has only cost the USA tons of money and equipment. The Ukraine is not an American Ally. They are not our major trading partner. We are doing this, opposing Russian Murder Inc. because it’s the right damn thing to do.

India should get off her ass and care about someone else for a change. You might sleep better and even have a drop in self loathing with an increase in pride and respect.

Edited to remove bloat

Turkey and the European Union are in NATO, are they not? I don't see you calling them out

Besides India has always been fickle. During the Cold War when Nations stood up to be counted for or against Evil, India came down firmly in the middle. Millions born in freedom for the last 30 years have absolutely nothing to thank India for.

India has nothing to thank the U.S. and the EU for either, for arming Pakistan and threatening armed intervention. Nixon was willing to do it in the 1971 war on Pakistan's side. Was Pakistan against evil? I'd argue they were evil, and hence the U.S. at that time chose to support "evil". This is a two way street. India led the non-aligned movement because we did not want to become pawns in the cold war between the superpowers. We did not support either the U.S. or the USSR. Yet, the U.S. chose to support Pakistan. Please don't answer in terms of morals, because I can also point out lots of instances where the U.S. and NATO have not "done the right thing." Countries do what's best for them, and that is a fact. The U.S. does, Russia does, China does, India does, the UK does, France does, everyone does. That's how the world works. Morals are almost never considered by governments.

India has not supported the war in Ukraine unlike China and Iran. Modi told Putin personally that this wasn't the era of war. I'm not sure why we're expected to cut off all oil imports - do you want us to have blackouts in Delhi and Mumbai just for the sake of cutting out Russian oil? & if so, why do you (the U.S.) and Europe continue to trade billions with Russia?

As I've mentioned previously, it was U.S. policy to allow India to buy Russian oil to maintain global energy prices. The U.S. has leveraged India's relationship with Russia to get them on board with things such as the G20 statement & back-channel diplomacy. I understand Trump took charge but that is none of our business, and you cannot demonise us and take this moral high ground for simply following what the U.S. State Department maintained until this year - "Buy Russian Oil.". Policy can change, yes, but that doesn't change their morality. And, as I said, we're a huge consumer of oil - third largest in the world. Where do we go, if not Russia?


Secondly, sure okay we cut off Russian oil. Where do we get our oil then? It's all been taken by Europe to diversify. There simply aren't enough other oil producing countries.

We don't have a choice. Either we buy Russian oil, or we live in darkness without electricity.

 

[Sentry]

Imports of goods from Russia to Europe in the first quarter of 2025 totaled 8.74 billion euros ($10.11 billion), down from 30.58 billion euros four years earlier. Since January 2022, the EU has imported 297 billion euros' worth of Russian goods.

The EU continues to purchase oil, nickel, natural gas, fertilizer, iron, and steel from Russia.

Since January 2022, the U.S. has imported $24.51 billion of Russian goods.

FERTILIZERS

Last year, the U.S. imported around $1.27 billion of Russian fertilizers, up slightly from $1.14 billion in 2021.

URANIUM, PLUTONIUM

The U.S. imported enriched uranium and plutonium from Russia worth around $624 million in 2024, a mere 3% down from $646 million in 2021.

PALLADIUM

Russia exported palladium to the United States for around $878 million in 2024, down from $1.59 billion in 2021.

You want the moral high ground and to cut Putin off totally? Then do it yourself first.

 

[Snowfall]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1953942834048016663

 

[Torch]

We don't have a choice. Either we buy Russian oil, or we live in darkness without electricity.

Probably should have been building more reactors and a few less party poppers?

Turkey and the European Union are in NATO, are they not? I don't see you calling them out

I have repeatedly called for Turkey to get kicked to the curb and added to the IFF B List.

The EU, er al needs to go as well. Their readiness levels are pathetic for a population that is larger than the USA, with more money than the USA and more land than the USA. I think there is near zero chance of the EU helping IN combat with the Chinese.

The EU represents only a liability and damn few advantages to US war fighting. They may well manage to start a war with Russia but the French will be busy hiding champagne before surrendering and half the Germans are gonna wanna switch sides. Meanwhile the UK is gonna stick with the US like white on rice. (To be fair we will never again allow anything like the London blitz to go unanswered in the UK.
We’re BFF’s and we are offering the same status to Australia. “Horse to water…” atm. Time will tell.)

 

[Torch]

Imports of goods from Russia to Europe in the first quarter of 2025 totaled 8.74 billion euros ($10.11 billion), down from 30.58 billion euros four years earlier. Since January 2022, the EU has imported 297 billion euros' worth of Russian goods.

The EU continues to purchase oil, nickel, natural gas, fertilizer, iron, and steel from Russia.

Since January 2022, the U.S. has imported $24.51 billion of Russian goods.

FERTILIZERS

Last year, the U.S. imported around $1.27 billion of Russian fertilizers, up slightly from $1.14 billion in 2021.

URANIUM, PLUTONIUM

The U.S. imported enriched uranium and plutonium from Russia worth around $624 million in 2024, a mere 3% down from $646 million in 2021.

PALLADIUM

Russia exported palladium to the United States for around $878 million in 2024, down from $1.59 billion in 2021.

You want the moral high ground and to cut Putin off totally? Then do it yourself first.

I don’t want the moral high ground. I would like to leave the Ukraine twisting in the wind. It’s not our problem, and we are on another continent, YOU are next door.

Sadly it looks like in an unfortunate bout of righteous the USA sorta promised the UA to protect it from the Russian if they gave us 30,000 nuclear warheads. Nobody thought they would really do it. Who does that? Dumb dumb dumb (everyone) so now we (the USA) have to help them, at least as far as a phone number on a cocktail napkin from Bill Clinton would get you.
Dammit.why could he have gone to “Fantasy Island” that weekend?

So here we are, doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. The DOD really needs to concentrate on China and Formosa now. We need to get everyone gearing up for Taiwan. You know the next big war the India will sit out, again.

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

I don’t want the moral high ground. I would like to leave the Ukraine twisting in the wind. It’s not our problem

But it is our problem. Russia is learning that they can do stuff without meaningful consequences.

Nuclear weapons scared the West away from intervening in Ukraine. What else will nuclear weapons scare the West away from? And will Russia get enough confidence that they will advance on something they think the West will back down from but won't? And then where will we be?

Not stopping Russia here only opens the door for further aggression.

You know the saying: Appease the aggressors and they only get more aggressive.

Do you think Russia is going to stop with a part of Ukraine?