US Military Build Up Near Venezuela | Aug 9th-28th 2025

[Peter Griffin]

Doesn't this justification involve a slightly different flavor of the same argument @OReid made... Conflict for economic gain? @OReid was torn apart for objectively exploring war for economic gain only for that argument to be ultimately landed upon as a likely reason for this Venezuela excursion.

Time to take a pause and dispassionately consider the academic side of this discussion and plausible reasons for an attack whatever they may be. I am not supporting economic reasons as a reason for war. But I see 2 smart parties on seemingly opposite sides of the debate suggesting it a possibility.

You mistake my point. I am in no way in favor of the USA invading ANY nation. The only instance I believe in it acceptable for our regular armed forces to be used in an extended military deployment, would be if US or our allies are being actively bombed or attacked from that territory. And no, drug trade is not kinetic action as much as some would like to paint it as. I am in NO WAY IN SUPPORT OF USING US MILITARY FOR IMPERIALIST VENTURES

 

[Peter Griffin]

I was just providing the mindset that many in the us take, as you might guess I think invading nations for their resources is the same as what the Nazi's were doing. That's just how I was taught by those men in my family that fought in ww2 and every war since then.

 

[Publius]

Oreid you are suggesting Revanchist Imperialism to secure our Oil Reserves. Sorry, as much as I hate the Cartels, I'd rather not see some of my marine friends come home in caskets to satisfy your "Economic security or Growth" The USA military IS NOT FOR EXPANDING. ITS ENTIRE PURPOSE WAS BUILT TO DEFEND. Guess one of us have been lied to though, huh?

You are not listening. I am only saying it is not practical or honest to discount or ignore the economic realities and benefits of going to war. This is the honest truth of why nations go to war and to deny it is just fooling yourself.
Now you might tell yourself I would never condone of consent to war for economic reasons. That’s ok another nation one day will decide to war with you over economic reasons. Waiting until the day they decide conditions are favorable for them is only giving them the advantage.

I’m not on board with boots on the ground in Venezuela, I see little economic gain it either,
I don’t even give it much chance of the marines leaving their ships on this deployment,
It’s about power projection,
It’s about interdiction at sea,
It’s about perception,

Aside from loose speculation there are not even discernible reasons to launch a MEU.
This is all just an academic exercise,

Also economic gains are not just limited to access to resources, it’s about hemispheric influence, about trade negotiations, it’s about secure trade routes and access to ports and airport hubs.

 

[Publius]

Point well taken, and completely valid!


Inaction due to economics doesn't carry the same moral weight as exploitative aggression. Failing to act is not morally equivalent to choosing to actively commit harm.
Colonial powers like Britain used military force to subjugate and extract, but our neutrality involves no direct harm to Ukraine, only a refusal to join Western sanctions. India has not been entirely passive. It has provided humanitarian aid to Ukraine, supported the Black Sea Grain Initiative to mitigate global food crises, and advocated for dialogue and diplomacy. Modi has told Putin that he did not agree with his war, and has consistently told Ukraine that India supports peace and Ukraine's territorial integrity.

For India's relationship with Russia that dates to the Cold War, with the Soviet Union providing critical support during the 1971 India-Pakistan war and vetoing anti-India UN resolutions on Kashmir. This history has led to a deep strategic partnership, with Russia supplying over 50% of India’s military hardware. Breaking this abruptly for moral posturing would compromise our defense capabilities especially given tensions with China and Pakistan. Aligning against Russia risks pushing it closer to China, which will destabilise the Indo-Pacific. Our neutrality is also about survival in a region with hostile neighbours and dependence on Russian arms.

If we sanctioned Russia we would face energy crises, military vulnerabilities, and a stronger China-Russia axis. Not good for the world, is it? To weaken India while making China stronger.

And evidently India has choose Cold War mentalities, good to know

 

[Sentry]

And evidently India has choose Cold War mentalities, good to know

Eh, gross oversimplification of the issue & you know it. Ignores the countless nuances I've tried to explain to you. I'd argue the attitude of "picking a side" reflects your Cold War mentality, instead. There's no point in debating if you're going to ignore the facts I've presented objectively.

 

[Publius]

Eh, gross oversimplification of the issue & you know it. Ignores the countless nuances I've tried to explain to you. I'd argue the attitude of "picking a side" reflects your Cold War mentality, instead.

Just feeding back your reasons, no more no less

 

[Peter Griffin]

Eh, gross oversimplification of the issue & you know it. Ignores the countless nuances I've tried to explain to you. I'd argue the attitude of "picking a side" reflects your Cold War mentality, instead. There's no point in debating if you're going to ignore the facts I've presented objectively.

If his profile picture change is to be considered anything, it shouldn't be for the better.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Now you might tell yourself I would never condone of consent to war for economic reasons. That’s ok another nation one day will decide to war with you over economic reasons. Waiting until the day they decide conditions are favorable for them is only giving them the advantage.

revanchism​

(rəˈvæntʃˌɪzəm)
noun
a spirit of revenge moving a defeated nation to aggressively seek restoration of lost territory, authority, etc.

 

[Sentry]

Just feeding back your reasons, no more no less

Not sure how that is a constructive way to communicate. I'd appreciate well-sourced, point-by-point rebuttals.

 

[Peter Griffin]

revanchism​

(rəˈvæntʃˌɪzəm)
noun
a spirit of revenge moving a defeated nation to aggressively seek restoration of lost territory, authority, etc.

And what has trump parroted this entire time MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

 

[Peter Griffin]

You would do much better in your argument if you stopped assuming everyone took the same position as you. I myself am sturdy in my convictions. My belief in God has tethered my to the unshakeable belief that inflicting violence begets violence. You might see war as a means to a better society. I see it as the tools for which will tear our societies apart.

 

[Peter Griffin]

nonetheless, this will most definitely need a reports and discussions thread. This will be needing extreme coverage.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Venezuela deploys warships, drones to coast as US naval squadron nears

Venezuelan Defence Ministry orders naval patrols as US warships sent to waters off coast to tackle drug cartels.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[william]

You mistake my point. I am in no way in favor of the USA invading ANY nation. The only instance I believe in it acceptable for our regular armed forces to be used in an extended military deployment,

I don't think it will be an extended deployment. I think the military will go in an arrest Maduro, let the legitimately elected official take his place (I forget his name) and get out. Now we might keep a couple of military bases there, but the offensive action will cease. IMO

would be if US or our allies are being actively bombed or attacked from that territory. And no, drug trade is not kinetic action

I disagree. How many here do not know someone who has died from drug overdose? I know some will say that "no one forced then to take it" but what these cartels are doing is lacing what appear to be prescription recreational drugs with fentanyl and these kids are dying.

If fentanyl is so deadly, why do drug dealers use it to lace illicit drugs?

Fentanyl is now being laced in traditional opioids like oxycodone and heroin, and increasingly, in non-opioids like cocaine and various counterfeit pills.

www.goodmorningamerica.com

as much as some would like to paint it as. I am in NO WAY IN SUPPORT OF USING US MILITARY FOR IMPERIALIST VENTURES

I agree with this statement.

 

[william]

Yep. No debating people who constantly think they are right all the time and unable to see the wrongs of their ways. We are heading to a very, very, very, dark place

That statement is opinion, and I am of the opinion we are not.

in the next 10 years when people are unwilling to see that even making a joke like that, when discussing something as SERIOUS as this subject matter, is in extremely fucking poor taste. This is how the Nazis fooled everyone

The nazi thing is getting a little old.

into fucking thinking everything was rose colored and tinted in goddamn peaches. It was all satire and jokes before it fucking wasnt.

 

[william]

What is the us interest in doing anything it does? Because they can.

Thank God we can, otherwise we'd be speaking Japanese or German. I would suggest people in the west start learning mandarin because if we don't get our shit together that's what we will be speaking in ten years.

Speaking as a US citizen, whenever there is a chance for lower gas prices, and instability presents itself, our government and some of our citizenry froth at the mouth at the chance of military intervention.

I'll just leave this here

War secures contracts, contracts secure financial boons, and those in our government will enrich their pockets with their lucrative oil investments.

Is the government telling you, you can't buy stock in the oil and defense industries.

 

[Torch]

I’ve already addressed this multiple times before. Let’s break it down in simpler terms.

To state that India enables Russia’s war is simply incorrect. Russia is paid in Indian Rupees which they use to invest back in us, and not for war as it is not an acceptable legal tender anywhere except in India. We pay them in our currency and guarantee that we will get the money back anyway.

Russia produces a lot of oil. Europe stops buying Russian oil and shifts to other suppliers. Other oil producing countries divert their products to Europe. India either joins and prices go up as demand increases by 50% resulting in EVERYONE paying a lot more for oil, or takes Europe’s share of the oil. Oil supply doesnt just increase out of thin air. If not Russian oil, what do we buy?

Think of it this way: Do you expect India to account for partisan behaviour and changes in U.S. administration while drafting it’s own foreign policy, given that the Biden Administration encouraged Russian oil imports because of the reasoning I have repeated so many times now, confirmed by the then U.S. Ambassador To India?

I have already explained that even if we did stop buying Russian oil overnight all that would do is make them even more dependent on China and give the Chinese access to super cheap oil.

You are deluding yourself. Anything Russia get to buy back from you in return for something they do not make but pump out of the ground and sell you is something they do not have to obtain with oil dollars. Of course you are enabling their economy.

If I was an uncaring self centered indifferent asshat I would too. Oh wait I am. Opps. Well um anyway I think, since India is not invoked the should do what is best for India. That could be empowering you economy (yeah! Good times) or it could be doing something to save your neighbors, something justified in the end (hmmm for a minute there…)

Anyway you can lie to yourselves or you can own it. In the end Ukraine doesn’t care why you do what you do. They are worried about dead civilians, everyday. Russia is not.

What a nice friend to have.

PS If y’all can stand the heat and recriminations, you won’t be any different than the USA in WWI.

We had two rules.
1) Cash and carry. Anyone or everyone can “invest” their monies the the USA and get anything loaded on a vessel

2) No one attacks such vessels in USA
Waster

 

[Yingyang]

You are deluding yourself. Anything Russia get to buy back from you in return for something they do not make but pump out of the ground and sell you is something they do not have to obtain with oil dollars. Of course you are enabling their economy.

If I was an uncaring self centered indifferent asshat I would too. Oh wait I am. Opps. Well um anyway I think, since India is not invoked the should do what is best for India. That could be empowering you economy (yeah! Good times) or it could be doing something to save your neighbors, something justified in the end (hmmm for a minute there…)

Anyway you can lie to yourselves or you can own it. In the end Ukraine doesn’t care why you do what you do. They are worried about dead civilians, everyday. Russia is not.

What a nice friend to have.

PS If y’all can stand the heat and recriminations, you won’t be any different than the USA in WWI.

We had two rules.
1) Cash and carry. Anyone or everyone can “invest” their monies the the USA and get anything loaded on a vessel

2) No one attacks such vessels in USA
Waters

America never completely stopped enabling Russian economy either. America continued trade with Russia during the whole conflict just like many western countries. And still do creating more trade deals currently. Please .

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

America never completely stopped enabling Russian economy either. America continued trade with Russia during the whole conflict just like many western countries. And still do creating more trade deals currently. Please .

There is truth to this.

If I was President, I would have ordered a complete boycott of Russia. Let's see how happy Russia is when Windows stops working.

 

[Sentry]

There is truth to this.

If I was President, I would have ordered a complete boycott of Russia. Let's see how happy Russia is when Windows stops working.

The issue we're having is that China isn't sanctioned or tariffed, and Europe's purchase of fossil fuels is ignored! Wasn't Trump discussing an oil deal with Russian officials and Exxon during the Alaska summit? That's the entire crux of the issue.