US-PRC-ROC | DISCUSSIONS- 2024

[GBS61]

In fact we have faced worst as a nation in the past & survived and in many different ways.

Really? there has never been an attack on American soil. This situation could change. The 2 oceans do not protect against a monster cyber attack and a nuclear attack, during the 2 world wars this type of attack did not exist.

 

[NuclearID]

Really? there has never been an attack on American soil. This situation could change. The 2 oceans do not protect against a monster cyber attack and a nuclear attack, during the 2 world wars this type of attack did not exist.

You clearly didn't take the time to read my post so I'm not going to bother responding to yours.

For reference quoted my post for you to actually read. I wasn't talking about anything you had to say. My whole post was referring to our past history with the cold war with the soviets & winning a cold war with China today, not a hot war.

I don't think all is lost yet. In fact we have faced worst as a nation in the past & survived and in many different ways.

Sure China poses a more different challenge than the Soviet Union did. But core principles the same, just another run of the mill Cold War competition style flex.

Those my freinds are winnable, we have won it in the past, and still hold some hope that world war three will not occur through this new cold war we face with China and as always with authoritarian systems wait for it to collapse and fall appart from its own short sighted doings.

 

[GBS61]

You clearly didn't take the time to read my post so I'm not going to bother responding to yours.

For reference quoted my post for you to actually read. I wasn't talking about anything you had to say. My whole post was referring to our past history with the cold war with the soviets & winning a cold war with China today, not a hot war.

Yawn!

 

[Torch]

I don't think all is lost yet. In fact we have faced worst as a nation in the past & survived and in many different ways.

Sure China poses a more different challenge than the Soviet Union did. But core principles the same, just another run of the mill Cold War competition style flex.

Those my freinds are winnable, we have won it in the past, and still hold some hope that a hot world war three will not occur through this new cold war we face with China and as always with authoritarian systems wait for it to collapse and fall appart from its own short sighted doings.

I’m defining winning as the complete defeat of the ChiCom armed forces and removing their ability to threaten any US holdings, territories and our allies (specifically Formosa/Taiwan, the Philippines and Japan.)

I’m not talking about a moving goal post that accepts victory that involves the US and their allies in anything less than total control of the battle space.

 

[NuclearID]

I’m defining winning as the complete defeat of the ChiCom armed forces and removing their ability to threaten any US holdings, territories and our allies (specifically Formosa/Taiwan, the Philippines and Japan.)

I’m not talking about a moving goal post that accepts victory that involves the US and their allies in anything less than total control of the battle space.

We didn't have to fight the Soviets to win the cold war with the soviets. We won't have to fight the Chinese to win our cold war with the Chinese. Not sure why everyone has a hard-on for a military confrontation with China when it is not necessary or needed.

We can simply just out wait an outspend them. Because just like every authoritarian system it will collapse sooner then later from its own undoing. The seams that are holding China together are already cracking

A win is the fall/collapse of the CCP party/Chinese government. Not a total annihilation of Chinese military on the world stage.

 

[NuclearID]

A win is the fall/collapse of the CCP party/Chinese government. Not a total annihilation of Chinese military on the world stage.

And why would it? We defeated and won the cold war with the Soviets without having to annihilate their military. People need to get a dose of reality.

 

[Publius]

And why would it? We defeated and won the cold war with the Soviets without having to annihilate their military. People need to get a dose of reality.

True but yet here we are again with Russia. Im not completely deriding US policy during that time. It it’s a reality we are not omniscient, past success and capabilities do not guarantee future success.
Could china try something yes, is the US be able to respond sufficiently to block or prevent china, yes.
Will the government at that time do what is necessary to accomplish this, well that’s an unknown isn’t it.
We succeeded and failed quite a bit in countering the USSR over a 40 year span.
It took a much reviled, at the time, effort of the Reagan admin to bring it all to a head and bankrupt the USSR.

 

[NuclearID]

True but yet here we are again with Russia. Im not completely deriding US policy during that time. It it’s a reality we are not omniscient, past success and capabilities do not guarantee future success.
Could china try something yes, is the US be able to respond sufficiently to block or prevent china, yes.
Will the government at that time do what is necessary to accomplish this, well that’s an unknown isn’t it.
We succeeded and failed quite a bit in countering the USSR over a 40 year span.
It took a much reviled, at the time, effort of the Reagan admin to bring it all to a head and bankrupt the USSR.

Very well said. Not talking about here enitely, mostly social media... it seems a lot of people want a war with China to break out the way they discuss the future global theater chess board concerning US & China.

Not sure why everyone seems to agree war is all but certain. We have had a cold war before with IMO at the time much more dangerous then China is currently.

People thought for awhile that war with the USSR was inevitable, well they where wrong. Just like people today screaming war with China is inevitable are wrong. It doesn't have to be and likely won't end up that way.

 

[NuclearID]

As I've said time and again here. I don't think World War Three will happen on purpose. US & China don't want war and therefore will never go to war, on purpose.

Key phrase "on purpose". As I firmly believe the only real way WWIII will occur realistically is through mistakes, misunderstandings, and miscalculations.

Not saying there is no risk, as there was risk durring our cold war with the Soviets. But again my point is we did it before we can do it again without it turning hot. We just have to wait them out and we have a considerable larger checkbook then China.

 

[Yingyang]

The west agreed to the 1 China policy when China made it clear they wouldn't deal with us unless agreed to due to 100 yrs of Western meddling with China previously. That was 20 yrs and 10 yrs ago. But once again like other deals and agreements with so called enemies at the time due to Western superiority all is agreed until such countries become more independent and growth for obvious reasons seems to be a threat. Than as usual insecurity takes over and deals,agreements etc are broken. Nothing new but now never repeated due to repetitive occurrences trust is gone.

 

[Erecon]

The west agreed to the 1 China policy when China made it clear they wouldn't deal with us unless agreed to due to 100 yrs of Western meddling with China previously. That was 20 yrs and 10 yrs ago. But once again like other deals and agreements with so called enemies at the time due to Western superiority all is agreed until such countries become more independent and growth for obvious reasons seems to be a threat. Than as usual insecurity takes over and deals,agreements etc are broken. Nothing new but now never repeated due to repetitive occurrences trust is gone.

China isnt keeping their agreements either, we seen that in Hongkong, North Korea and the South China Sea. ( And other issues, but just wanted to mention a few ) - And as usual China can suck it up like a grownup, or continue to cry like a baby.

 

[Publius]

Very well said. Not talking about here enitely, mostly social media... it seems a lot of people want a war with China to break out the way they discuss the future global theater chess board concerning US & China.

Not sure why everyone seems to agree war is all but certain. We have had a cold war before with IMO at the time much more dangerous then China is currently.

People thought for awhile that war with the USSR was inevitable, well they where wrong. Just like people today screaming war with China is inevitable are wrong. It doesn't have to be and likely won't end up that way.

It’s not that it’s certain. Rather that any major war is devastating, a world war fashioned after WW 2 with modern weapons is honestly truly frightening.
That goes without saying.

All that acknowledged. There are those who will default that any major outbreak of war amongst great national powers must be avoided “At All Cost”. I can’t say I disagree. The question is how to do so without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Some use the fear of it to argue it’s so unthinkable that anything and everything should be done to avoid it, simply because to not do so would be inhumane or immoral.
Others use the fear of it to lobby as part of any given contrarian national ambition. (The current Gaza protest for example, what everyday Palestinians are suffering is horrible. But is the solution to continue to neuter and de-legitimize Israelis?)

Or whatever we might regard as best outcome in Ukraine or best outcome for Taiwan is secondary to the specter of nuclear war. And thus all ambitions that risk the threat of nuclear war must be ignored no matter what the cost or outcome.

For me this just legitimizes Nuclear weapons as a viable tool of state policy. In the end it will only guarantees it will be tested.

The arrow in the quiver of your enemy. You can either perpetually run and hide from it till you can run no more. Or you can devise a tactic and weapon to make your enemy think twice before reaching for it.
In the end for me setting at home on my porch listening to the wind in the trees on this fine summer day. What is more frightening, nuclear Armageddon or a group of individuals flooding into my village with machetes hacking people to death. Both are inconceivable but one continues to occur quite frequently throughout the world.
You either plan as a nation and individual to deter the threat or acknowledge it will eventually come for my nation or village.

 

[Publius]

China isnt keeping their agreements either, we seen that in Hongkong, North Korea and the South China Sea. ( And other issues, but just wanted to mention a few ) - And as usual China can suck it up like a grownup, or continue to cry like a baby.

Has it become obvious yet that when the dialectic process is used ad infintium it becomes meaningless.

 

[Torch]

all ambitions that risk the threat of nuclear war must be ignored no matter what the cost or outcome.