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Venezuela & Columbia | US Kinetic Indicators & Warnings | Aug. 28th/Dec 4th, 2025 | | DISCUSSIONS

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Trump Spoke by Phone Last Week With Maduro, Venezuela’s Leader

President Trump spoke by phone last week with Nicolás Maduro, the Venezuelan leader, and discussed a possible meeting between them, multiple people with knowledge of the matter said, even as the United States continues to threaten military action against Venezuela.

The conversation took place late in the week, two of the people said. It included a discussion about a possible meeting between the two men in the United States, according to the people with knowledge of the matter, who were granted anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly. There are no plans at the moment for such a meeting, one of the people said.

The phone call, which included Secretary of State Marco Rubio, came days before a State Department designation of Mr. Maduro as the leader of what the administration considers a foreign terrorist organization, the Cartel del los Soles, came into effect.
 
Ex-Army JAG Margaret Donovan weighs in on reports that the US military shot up survivors of its strike on an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean (this comes after White House officially confirmed there was a "second strike", but denied Hegseth gave the order).

I think it's an indication of an administration that knows something has gone terribly wrong here - and that's why you see all those leaders and lawmakers saying that this is a stone cold war crime. This is (...) so basic for everyone who has served in the military, and has trained on the laws of armed conflict, that it's no surprise the administration would be trying to shift the blame.

I think that the choice to pin this on Adm. Bradley is an interesting one - but not unexpected, because secretary Hegseth is not someone who has leadership qualities; he's largely unqualified to be in that position - so of course his natural instinct would be "something has gone wrong; let me find somebody to blame this on".

Now, that's not to absolve Adm. Bradley of anything - if the facts really played out the way it's being reported, then he absolutely had a duty not to follow an unlawful order from Sec. Hegseth.


Source
Assuming these reports are true, perhaps Admiral Bradley should have heeded the advice of Senator Mark Kelly and the Democrat lawmakers who created the video reminded service people that they did not have to follow unlawful orders....
 
Assuming these reports are true, perhaps Admiral Bradley should have heeded the advice of Senator Mark Kelly and the Democrat lawmakers who created the video reminded service people that they did not have to follow unlawful orders....
IMO we're looking at a canary-in-a-coal-mine situation, and - at least to me personally - it's more insteresting to speculate about the broader context of this matter rather than about a handful of lives lost at sea.

First - it is absolutely nobody's secret that, throughout its history of participation in various kinds of conflicts, US armed forces have committed plenty of what would today be referred to as war crimes (things like executing prisoners, torturing civilians, looting, etc.) The usual excuse that gets offered is "war is messy". I actually happen to agree. Morality in warfare is a luxury the stronger side may sometimes afford - if it chooses to - but even in that case, it's simply impossible to diligently dot all your i's. As brutal as it may sound, a certain measure of atrocity in warfare is essentially inevitable, even for the side which regards itself as morally superior (and let's be honest - they all do).

Having said that, there are two important differences between WW1/WW2/Vietnam/what have you and what is going on today:
  • In older wars it was easier to sweep all that nasty stuff under the rug (and keep it away from the public eye) - but now, with cameras and real-life online video feeds, pretty much everything gets revealed, triggering media frenzies.
  • The problem of soldiers engaging in war crimes has never been systemic in the USA, as in - it has never been official US policy to condone and/or encourage such behavior, and - in general - perpetrators (if caught) tended to be punished. This is in stark contrast to e.g. Russia.
I believe we might be on the cusp of a major realignment involving the second item on the above list 👆. It is not inconceivable that that's the real meaning of Hegseth's recent address: "We fight to win. We unleash overwhelming and punishing violence on the enemy." The guy has a long history of expressing disdain for moral restraint in warfare, so it comes as no surprise that he would want to imprint this mentality upon the entire US armed forces in his capacity as SECDEF (or is it SECWAR now?)

I also think that - perhaps for the first time ever - the American public is primed to accept this change. Most (nearly all) will do so tacitly, by saying and doing nothing to prevent it, but I'm catching a strong whiff of "It's unfortunate, but it must be done." Broadly speaking - the US society is terrified of the future, and terrified people will let you get away with absolutely anything if only you promise them safety.

You'd be excused for viewing all this as another step in the gradual process of transforming the United States in Russia's image.
 
Assuming these reports are true, perhaps Admiral Bradley should have heeded the advice of Senator Mark Kelly and the Democrat lawmakers who created the video reminded service people that they did not have to follow unlawful orders....
Why are we so thin skinned?
It’s like somehow we know and are so elevated and high and mighty than 5 millennia of human.
Do we expect cartels like terrorist to adhere to our moral standards? Or take advantage of them.
And yes I’m sorry if you somehow think we’ve evolved beyond them, your wrong.
 
IMO we're looking at a canary-in-a-coal-mine situation, and - at least to me personally - it's more insteresting to speculate about the broader context of this matter rather than about a handful of lives lost at sea.

First - it is absolutely nobody's secret that, throughout its history of participation in various kinds of conflicts, US armed forces have committed plenty of what would today be referred to as war crimes (things like executing prisoners, torturing civilians, looting, etc.) The usual excuse that gets offered is "war is messy". I actually happen to agree. Morality in warfare is a luxury the stronger side may sometimes afford - if it chooses to - but even in that case, it's simply impossible to diligently dot all your i's. As brutal as it may sound, a certain measure of atrocity in warfare is essentially inevitable, even for the side which regards itself as morally superior (and let's be honest - they all do).

Having said that, there are two important differences between WW1/WW2/Vietnam/what have you and what is going on today:
  • In older wars it was easier to sweep all that nasty stuff under the rug (and keep it away from the public eye) - but now, with cameras and real-life online video feeds, pretty much everything gets revealed, triggering media frenzies.
  • The problem of soldiers engaging in war crimes has never been systemic in the USA, as in - it has never been official US policy to condone and/or encourage such behavior, and - in general - perpetrators (if caught) tended to be punished. This is in stark contrast to e.g. Russia.
I believe we might be on the cusp of a major realignment involving the second item on the above list 👆. It is not inconceivable that that's the real meaning of Hegseth's recent address: "We fight to win. We unleash overwhelming and punishing violence on the enemy." The guy has a long history of expressing disdain for moral restraint in warfare, so it comes as no surprise that he would want to imprint this mentality upon the entire US armed forces in his capacity as SECDEF (or is it SECWAR now?)

I also think that - perhaps for the first time ever - the American public is primed to accept this change. Most (nearly all) will do so tacitly, by saying and doing nothing to prevent it, but I'm catching a strong whiff of "It's unfortunate, but it must be done." Broadly speaking - the US society is terrified of the future, and terrified people will let you get away with absolutely anything if only you promise them safety.

You'd be excused for viewing all this as another step in the gradual process of transforming the United States in Russia's image.
if by that you mean allowing the military to actually confront and neutralize forces or organizations that are involved in hurting the nation.
Then yes I have zero issues with it.
Just as so few had issues with US drones and SOF forces double tapping terrorist all accros Africa and Middle East for 20 years.
So be morally outraged if you want, your just late to the party
 
It will not affect anyone here, it will not affect nuclear threats
Ehhhhhhh...
Venezuela and Russia have a strong relationship. There is a *slim* chance Russia could get involved. I doubt that will happen, but the odds aren't zero, so we shouldn't write it off.
 
THERE it is...
This has nothing to do with drugs or cartels. Never has.
Ofc it isn’t about drugs or cartels. I’m concerned so many people here have eaten that BS up. Many Americans just love war I guess and the excuses aren’t for them, because they’d support anything that makes them feel strong.

Despicable.
 
Ofc it isn’t about drugs or cartels. I’m concerned so many people here have eaten that BS up. Many Americans just love war I guess and the excuses aren’t for them, because they’d support anything that makes them feel strong.

Despicable.
Shallow and foolish generalizations and they are wrong. Now that’s despicable.

Many Americans don’t even care that there is a country named Vena..venezulu…somthing next to Columbia, which oddly, we all do know. The rest don’t need to feel like their country is strong, reality has that covered.
 
Shallow and foolish generalizations and they are wrong. Now that’s despicable.

Many Americans don’t even care that there is a country named Vena..venezulu…somthing next to Columbia, which oddly, we all do know. The rest don’t need to feel like their country is strong, reality has that covered.
You really didn’t help dispel my feelings on the matter. War worshipping is simply in Americas culture. That’s a part of the culture and as general as commenting on any other part of the culture. It’s pretty indisputable to anywhere but America that our culture celebrates war. We are the ones that tell ourselves we are apprehensive. But it’s not true, any outsider can see we very much welcome war unless it’s to actually defend other people, then we are all sorts of anti war. Yet we’ve still intervened in pretty much every damn country, and celebrate it widely. I’m honestly surprised Venezuela is even very unpopular, I bet it wouldn’t be if it were Harris though, I bet everyone would be for it. So I thank Trump for making it unpopular.
 
You really didn’t help dispel my feelings on the matter. War worshipping is simply in Americas culture. That’s a part of the culture and as general as commenting on any other part of the culture. It’s pretty indisputable to anywhere but America that our culture celebrates war. We are the ones that tell ourselves we are apprehensive. But it’s not true, any outsider can see we very much welcome war unless it’s to actually defend other people, then we are all sorts of anti war. Yet we’ve still intervened in pretty much every damn country, and celebrate it widely. I’m honestly surprised Venezuela is even very unpopular, I bet it wouldn’t be if it were Harris though, I bet everyone would be for it. So I thank Trump for making it unpopular.
Options vary
 
Options vary
And they are like derrieres - everyone has one. So here's another...

A Politico article (here) has indicated that Secretary of State Marco Rubio is the architect of the Venezuelan campaign. Venezuela is Cuba's main ally in the region and a supplier of oil to Cuba (though at decreasing rates). Rubio is also the son of Cuban immigrants. Perhaps there is a kind of domino theory in play here:
  1. Knock down Venezuela, the weaker of the two. Stopping drug smuggling provides a pretext. Venezuela has some remaining vestiges of democracy most people still remember with a strongish opposition that can theoretically assume control once Maduro is out. Cuba's main ally is then incapacitated.
  2. This, in turn, weakens Cuba. There's been some social disorder going on there lately due to infrastructure and supply problems. Does this set the stage for Cubans to push back against its regime (something Rubio would like)?
 
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Why are they after Hegseth explained.
"The desire then to treat [Hegseth] as a war criminal... is beyond just like a normal political debate. That's what's happening right now.
SECRETARY OF THE ARMY’S OFFICE PLOTTING COUP AT THE PENTAGON TO REMOVE Sec War PETE HEGSETH AND REPLACE HIM WITH
Sec Army DAN DRISCOLL.
Jake Sullivan, the former National Security Advisor of the United States under Joe Biden, is very close friends with Dan Driscoll, and they have been friends since they both attended Yale Law School. Driscoll and Vice President Vance also met at Yale Law School, which is how Driscoll was nominated as Army Secretary.
Sullivan is worried Hegseth and President Trump are going to take action against the seditious 6. One of the seditious 6 is Democrat Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander (D-NH), the wife of Jake Sullivan who goes by a different last name to hide the fact that she is married to Jake Sullivan.
Goodlander and Sullivan got married in 2015. Some of guests at their wedding include Hillary Clinton, Lisa Monaco, Huma Abedin, Samantha Power, Victoria Nuland, and Antony Blinken, all of whom are anti-Trump.
Sullivan previously served as Director of Policy to President Barack Obama, National Security Advisor to then-Vice President Biden and Deputy Chief of Staff to Secretary at the U.S. State Department. Sullivan also served as senior advisor for the Iran nuclear negotiations and as a senior policy advisor to Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign against Donald Trump.
Jake Sullivan played a central role in the Clinton campaign's efforts to promote the Trump-Russia collusion story, including feeding journalists details about the fabricated Alfa Bank–Trump server allegations and linking the campaign to the discredited Steele dossier—claims that triggered years of investigations and were ultimately exposed as a partisan hoax.
Additionally, Driscoll posted a photo of himself earlier this year hanging out with Eugene Vindman, who collaborated with his brother Alexander Vindman to impeach President Trump over false allegations. Now, Sullivan is working with high level Army officials in Army Secretary Dan Driscoll’s office to force Pete Hegseth out and install Dan Driscoll as Secretary of War.
It's all about gaining POWER and taking down Trump!
 
With all the press in the cabinet room watching, Secretary of War Pete Hegseth laid it out straight.
“As I’ve said, I’ll say again, we’ve only just begun striking narco boats and putting narco terrorists at the bottom of the ocean because they’ve been poisoning the American people.”
“We’ve had a bit of a pause because it’s hard to find boats to strike right now, which is the entire point, right?” “Deterrence has to matter, not arrest and hand over and then do it again.
 

Hegseth did not issue 'kill them all' order​


"The admiral confirmed that there had not been a kill them all order and that there was not an order to grant no quarter," Rep. Jim Himes, D-Conn., top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee,



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LINK TO CONTINUATION OF THREAD BELOW🔗⤵️
 
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