Does NATO need Turkey?

[Saguenay]

OH, Attention, Turkey is very important for NATO,
Otherwise, we would never have accepted it.
here are some facts:

Turkey can block Russia's access to the Mediterranean and serve as a launching pad for the American nuclear armies installed on its territory since the beginning of the 1960s.
It also blocks Russian influence in the Middle East.

The Turkish army is the second largest army in NATO after the American army.

Turkey served as a logistics platform during NATO's two wars against Iraq, in 1991 and 2003. It also participated in operations in Afghanistan, Lebanon, Bosnia and Kosovo.
It is also part of the anti-missile shield system against Iran.

Nowadays, Turkish territory continues to host many NATO installations: radar stations, missile launch bases, Incirlik air base, etc.

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

But the question is: will they when it comes time?

 

[Saguenay]

But the question is: will they when it comes time?

It is true that nowadays Turkey is squinting on the Russian side. Erdogan is a joker.

 

[ZedBoy]

I love in a nato aligned country and if I didn't have turkey for Thanksgiving I'd be mad! So I say we need it.

 

[Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱]

Somthing just came across my mind. Turkey will say no to Finish and Sweedish membership until they get what they want like they have in the past with other NATO members admission. I am 99% sure what Turkey is going to get in return to making them say yes to their admission...

We withheld our new ground breaking F-35 & F-16 from them for purchasing Russian military hardware. Bet you US willing to sell them now to Turkey to get Finland/Sweeden in NATO.

Thoughts @DEFCON Warning System @RiffRaff?

 

[Onoya]

Somthing just came across my mind. Turkey will say no to Finish and Sweedish membership until they get what they want like they have in the past with other NATO members admission. I am 99% sure what Turkey is going to get in return to making them say yes to their admission...

We withheld our new ground breaking F-35 & F-16 from them for purchasing Russian military hardware. Bet you US willing to sell them now to Turkey to get Finland/Sweeden in NATO.

Thoughts @DEFCON Warning System @RiffRaff?

i saw in the french tv news that Turkey could more easily accept about Finland, but it's mainly Sweden that support the kurds.

Didn't posted it here because it couldn't find a link online

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

Somthing just came across my mind. Turkey will say no to Finish and Sweedish membership until they get what they want like they have in the past with other NATO members admission. I am 99% sure what Turkey is going to get in return to making them say yes to their admission...

We withheld our new ground breaking F-35 & F-16 from them for purchasing Russian military hardware. Bet you US willing to sell them now to Turkey to get Finland/Sweeden in NATO.

Thoughts @DEFCON Warning System @RiffRaff?

I don't think Turkey is going to block them indefinitely. It's just a ploy to get something.

 

[Guest]

OH, Attention, Turkey is very important for NATO,
Otherwise, we would never have accepted it.
here are some facts:

Turkey can block Russia's access to the Mediterranean and serve as a launching pad for the American nuclear armies installed on its territory since the beginning of the 1960s.
It also blocks Russian influence in the Middle East.

The Turkish army is the second largest army in NATO after the American army.

Turkey served as a logistics platform during NATO's two wars against Iraq, in 1991 and 2003. It also participated in operations in Afghanistan, Lebanon, Bosnia and Kosovo.
It is also part of the anti-missile shield system against Iran.

Nowadays, Turkish territory continues to host many NATO installations: radar stations, missile launch bases, Incirlik air base, etc.

That was all before the secular non Islamist gov was kicked from power.
Your points stopped being relevant then

 

[Yingyang]

Turkey will not be removed from nato for saying no to others joining. And yes no is a bargain chip for something that will more than likely be sorted , and Finland and Sweden will join NATO eventually-being soon enough. But nato definitely won't remove Turkey from alliance. Especially for a no vote. It has to be something extremely serious to be kicked from nato. In other words voting system would be a waste of time if you could simply be removed for not complying with majority.

 

[Guest]

Erdogan has never struck me as stable leader. Very unpredictable and unstable is what I would evaluate him as. Getting kicked out of NATO I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he lashed out militarily at Greece.

NATO is just hoping and waiting for Erdogan to be ousted.

 

[Araxen]

NATO is just hoping and waiting for Erdogan to be ousted.

They aren't right now. Turkey is the country that is preventing Russia ships from going to and leaving the Black Sea at the moment. Only ships going to home base are allowed through.

Turkey Closes Bosphorus, Dardanelles Straits to Warships - USNI News

Turkey has closed off the Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits to warships from any country, whether or not they border the Black Sea, following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The strait closures will still allow warships through if they are returning to a home base in the Black Sea, according to...

news.usni.org

 

[REALHumanRights]

Turkey is undermining NATO interests though, it has to have pissed a lot of people off.

Turkey is on the literal border of Russia, unlike many of the commenters who are many hundreds if not many thousands of miles away from the Russian border. There was a reason USA and Western intelligence worked with Turkey during the Cold War, and dealt with proximity. The concept of physical proximity seems to be lost on a lot of military advocates. As to Edrogan being ousted, it certainly won't be by the Turkish people over Russia's invasion into Ukraine.

There seems to be a default USA/Western perspective that when we don't agree with leader of a foreign country, so we believe that if that person is out of office, the rest of the country will "toe the line" and agree with us (or else). This is part of our support for democratic values, some will argue. And in the next breath, we will denounce Russia's imperialism (which of course it should be denounced). But the rest of the world sees hypocrisy even when we don't. And the idea that "regime change" will equal national viewpoint change can be a very limited perspective, that does not take in to account that others may have similar views in that nation's leadership.

 

[DucknCover]

I think we need the people of Turkey but they are are misguided by their dictator Erdogan who is ruling with iron fist.
After the last coup d'état he became paranoid like Putin.
Their similarity forges them together.

 

[Guest]

Turkey is on the literal border of Russia, unlike many of the commenters who are many hundreds if not many thousands of miles away from the Russian border. There was a reason USA and Western intelligence worked with Turkey during the Cold War, and dealt with proximity. The concept of physical proximity seems to be lost on a lot of military advocates. As to Edrogan being ousted, it certainly won't be by the Turkish people over Russia's invasion into Ukraine.

There seems to be a default USA/Western perspective that when we don't agree with leader of a foreign country, so we believe that if that person is out of office, the rest of the country will "toe the line" and agree with us (or else). This is part of our support for democratic values, some will argue. And in the next breath, we will denounce Russia's imperialism (which of course it should be denounced). But the rest of the world sees hypocrisy even when we don't. And the idea that "regime change" will equal national viewpoint change can be a very limited perspective, that does not take in to account that others may have similar views in that nation's

Him being ousted by the Turkish citizens. If it happens it happens if it doesn’t it doesn’t. The turkey that joined nato is not the turkey of today. It is within the rights of nato states to disassociate if they want, if turkey’s policies no longer correlate with nato.

 

[Rainfall]

Turkey is on the literal border of Russia, unlike many of the commenters who are many hundreds if not many thousands of miles away from the Russian border. There was a reason USA and Western intelligence worked with Turkey during the Cold War, and dealt with proximity. The concept of physical proximity seems to be lost on a lot of military advocates. As to Edrogan being ousted, it certainly won't be by the Turkish people over Russia's invasion into Ukraine.

There seems to be a default USA/Western perspective that when we don't agree with leader of a foreign country, so we believe that if that person is out of office, the rest of the country will "toe the line" and agree with us (or else). This is part of our support for democratic values, some will argue. And in the next breath, we will denounce Russia's imperialism (which of course it should be denounced). But the rest of the world sees hypocrisy even when we don't. And the idea that "regime change" will equal national viewpoint change can be a very limited perspective, that does not take in to account that others may have similar views in that nation's leadership.

I wasn’t talking about Turks, I was referring to the millions of Finns and Swedes who are worried about losing their way of life and civil freedoms to Russia.

 

[Deleted account]

I don't think Turkey is going to block them indefinitely. It's just a ploy to get something.

But that's what they said about Putin's military buildup...

 

[Erecon]

Turkey is just trying to presure some concessions out of the 2 new members that is smart so he can get help for all those refugees they deal with and his headacke YPK but ofc irritating for some members. They will make some deals and move on.

 

[REALHumanRights]

Him being ousted by the Turkish citizens. If it happens it happens if it doesn’t it doesn’t. The turkey that joined nato is not the turkey of today. It is within the rights of nato states to disassociate if they want, if turkey’s policies no longer correlate with nato.

Global clubs who don't respect different viewpoints ultimately undermine the glue that holds them together: trust and respect.
Like I am anti-Russian, I am also anti-Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. I point this out to be honest and for context. But I can still understand the Russian enemy has its own perspective, and I can still understand Turkey may have security concerns specific to their country (after 100 years as a proximity partner to the West regarding USSR/Russia).

The idea that we (USA/West) will push around anyone who doesn't agree with us is not the message we want to send, when we argue that we are different from the Russia militarists.

 

[Guest]

Global clubs who don't respect different viewpoints ultimately undermine the glue that holds them together: trust and respect.
Like I am anti-Russian, I am also anti-Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. I point this out to be honest and for context. But I can still understand the Russian enemy has its own perspective, and I can still understand Turkey may have security concerns specific to their country (after 100 years as a proximity partner to the West regarding USSR/Russia).

The idea that we (USA/West) will push around anyone who doesn't agree with us is not the message we want to send, when we argue that we are different from the Russia militarists.

I can respect or understand all day long.
Doesn’t mean I agree or accept.
Word games is all you have
How about respect or understand Ukrainian pos or Romanias Poland’s position. Lithuanian Estonian finlands Latvia. this is not some half backed movie where the whole story line is being orchestrated by evil players in the US.
Continually forming the whole argument as a failure of the US to live up to its expectations is

You forget the calls of concern for Russia’s intentions in Ukraine weren’t coming from Washington last fall. It was Eastern Europe.
You speak of perspective and understanding. But only ever couch this as a failing of the US. Oh you will disagree with Russia or turkey but god forbid you would actually expect them to change.
Or lend support to one of their neighbors who rightfully feel threatened by Russian intentions and actions is somehow not being true to western democracy.

 

[REALHumanRights]

I can respect or understand all day long.
Doesn’t mean I agree or accept.
Word games is all you have
How about respect or understand Ukrainian pos or Romanias Poland’s position. Lithuanian Estonian finlands Latvia. this is not some half backed movie where the whole story line is being orchestrated by evil players in the US.
Continually forming the whole argument as a failure of the US to live up to its expectations is

You forget the calls of concern for Russia’s intentions in Ukraine weren’t coming from Washington last fall. It was Eastern Europe.
You speak of perspective and understanding. But only ever couch this as a failing of the US. Oh you will disagree with Russia or turkey but god forbid you would actually expect them to change.
Or lend support to one of their neighbors who rightfully feel threatened by Russian intentions and actions is somehow not being true to western democracy.

I respect your point of view, but I disagree with your assessment on my opinion. Of course I seek Russia, Turkey, (and lots of other countries too) to change. But the reality is that we have limited control over that. I also agree that we should lend support to neighbors being threatened by Russian intentions, and as a USA citizen, our latest $40 billion on top of everything else being sent to the Ukraine is literally "putting our money where out mouth is." But as I have pointed out elsewhere, I believe a negotiated settlement is what benefits Ukraine and the world the most. Ukraine President Zelenskyy wants to argue Ukraine is winning. Over a third of the entire Ukraine country are refugees in their nation or in other nations (6 million). Ukraine is disastrously losing in fact, and for the sake of human life and mercy to those victims (who don't appear at NatSec conferences or NATO meetings) I would argue there needs to be a negotiated settlement.