UA-RU | DISCUSSIONS

[Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱]

In any case, I believe this is something that should be closely monitored.

A month ago when they first started pending this yes I was concerned that they where building ground work to attack Poland in some type of way.

But after a month its clear they are just running a misinformation campaign to sow confusion/fear or discord. We can safely say this isn't somthing to be alarmed about anymore.

 

[Deleted account]

A month ago when they first started pending this yes I was concerned that they where building ground work to attack Poland in some type of way.

But after a month its clear they are just running a misinformation campaign to sow confusion/fear or discord. We can safely say this isn't somthing to be alarmed about anymore.

Except that the Russian elites seem to have an unhealthy obsession with Poland of late. Perhaps you've missed it, but just last week Kadyrov ranted (twice!) about destroying Poland. He had never spoken about Poland before; at least not to my knowledge. Also, why is Patrushev harping on this now? It's been nine days since Duda visited Kyiv - an eternity given the current pace of events - the Russian propaganda has already had its field day with that story, and moved on to other crap.

Add to this Putin's yesterday's Security Council meeting ("to discuss matters related to Russia's national security and the related foreign policy issues" - IMO this has "how do we respond to MLRS deliveries?" written all over it), Medvedev's comments on hitting "decisionmaking centres" that are "not at all in Kyiv", and today's unprompted announcement that Russia has absolutely no plans to evacuate its diplos from "unfriendly countries" (which, as we all know by now, means the opposite).

Oh, and there was an Iskander launch drill in Kaliningrad a few days ago. Second time in a month.

 

[Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱]

ranted (twice!) about destroying Poland.

Yea their pissed the West is uniting and stopping their senseless war in Ukraine. It's what kids do when they don't get their way.

But they won't commit suicide over it or start WWIII over it. They have proven they won't do anything against NATO directly. NATO has proven they will not directly involve themselves either. We have reached a status quo.

 

[Deleted account]

Yea their pissed the West is uniting and stopping their senseless war in Ukraine. It's what kids do when they don't get their way.

But they won't commit suicide over it or start WWIII over it. They have proven they won't do anything against NATO directly. NATO has proven they will not directly involve themselves either. We have reached a status quo.

No, we have not. The situation is evolving, albeit slowly. NATO is supplying ever heavier weapons - advanced anti-ship missiles and rocket artillery is not something that they would have even considered at the outbreak of this war. Also there's fairly substantiated talk of ongoing deliveries of aircraft parts (presumably "the front part", "the rear part", and an IKEA-style assembly manual). Again, that is not indicative of status quo.

Ultimately, I suppose escalation is always in the eye of the beholder. Some NATO actions may trigger different responses depending on whether Russia is winning or losing. And right now they have every right to believe they are, indeed, losing - certainly when you consider their original goals.

 

[Guest]

It’s a war prosecute like a war or abandon it.

 

[RiffRaff]

It’s a war prosecute like a war or abandon it.

You mean like the US did with Korea? And Vietnam? And Iraq? And Afghanistan? How about the "War" on Drugs? Or the "War" on terrorism?

Seems to me like the only thing the US is interested in prosecuting is its own citizens.

 

[Guest]

You mean like the US did with Korea? And Vietnam? And Iraq? And Afghanistan? How about the "War" on Drugs? Or the "War" on terrorism?

Seems to me like the only thing the US is interested in prosecuting is its own citizens.

No I meant just what I said, do it or don’t do it.
There was and is good unity with nato to do what ever can be done to support Ukraine. Ukraine’s we’re and are willing to fight for their country. So the support either needs to continue and not waver until Ukraine achieves their goals or settles.
Or not.

What would SK be today if they weren’t defended?
There are no crystal balls.

Or if we don’t care or are concerned then don’t cry to me about any international issues.
The not my war argument if your going to be true to it would have been no defense of China and Australia or Korea or Britain or France or Russia during Ww2 no oil embargo on Japan they don’t attack Pearl Harbor we ignore it and what would have become of SE Asia and Australia and china. We could have ignored Europe and where would that have eventually led to Germany would have Middle East oil and what would Europe look like today.
There are no easy answers but doing anything halfway rarely works.

 

[bartok]

No, we have not. The situation is evolving, albeit slowly. NATO is supplying ever heavier weapons - advanced anti-ship missiles and rocket artillery is not something that they would have even considered at the outbreak of this war. Also there's fairly substantiated talk of ongoing deliveries of aircraft parts (presumably "the front part", "the rear part", and an IKEA-style assembly manual). Again, that is not indicative of status quo.

Ultimately, I suppose escalation is always in the eye of the beholder. Some NATO actions may trigger different responses depending on whether Russia is winning or losing. And right now they have every right to believe they are, indeed, losing - certainly when you consider their original goals.

mah... I really don't understand you. "they are indeed losing"... how can you say that? Maybe is the Russia retreating forward? have they taken the wrong direction? Maybe they will arrive on Polish border and the will say: "oops... isn't it the Rostov oblast?!"
For some aspects, I am very astonished about this powerfull ability to believe on what we tell ourselves on our own. What were the original goals of Russia? To conquer Ukraine in 3 days? And who would have said that? Actually, you can't neither go through Ukraine in 3 days with a moto using highways.
We can't use Covid rethotic with a war. I don't know in the US, but in Italy the gouvernement had said a lot of thing about Covid. One of them was the following: "90% of the Italians get vaccineted and they have undestood the importance of that, in spite of a 10% of the evil infamous infectors". The reality was different: "the 90% isn't 90% and the 50% at least of that not-90% get vaccinated just because if they didn't, they coudn't go at work or even in a pub": as to say, they were blackmailed. But, in that situation, it is possible to lie, because the power of the state is to big respect a single citizen. So, it is possible to blackmail millions of people and then say: "they were happy volunteers". But there is no sense in the use of such a strategy in a war, with an enemy that can impose its will by force. How can fit a Russia that is losing, with the fact that is winning, breaking through the Donbass front? It can't fit! We can't say: "they are losing, they are losing!", when they are actually advancing, because they will finally come. We can't create a parallel reality lying around. Sooner or later someone somewhere will see a Russian soldier in front of him and he will have to take note of the fact.

 

[REALHumanRights]

You mean like the US did with Korea? And Vietnam? And Iraq? And Afghanistan? How about the "War" on Drugs? Or the "War" on terrorism?

Seems to me like the only thing the US is interested in prosecuting is its own citizens.

Since you bring it up, the U.S. FBI "law enforcement" did provide funds to an American advocating for the Afghanistan Taliban terror group for 11 years; the father of ISIS terrorist Omar Mateen committing Pulse nightclub attacks in Florida. They stopping paying the pro-Taliban activist after 49 Americans were killed.
So they suppport "the wars," just too often on the side of the "enemy."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/seddiq...n-pulse-nightclub-shooter-updates-2018-03-26/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-orlando-shooters-afghan-roots/2016/06/13/d89a8cd0-30e4-11e6-ab9d-1da2b0f24f93_story.html

 

[REALHumanRights]

Poll on U.S. Concern in "Situation with Russia"
-- Gallup Poll states U.S. public concern over "Situation with Russia" represents 3 percent
while greatest U.S. public concern is "The government/Poor leadership" - 19 percent, followed by High cost of living/Inflation - 18 percent
(lede on this is buried regarding economy)

Economic Pessimism Growing in U.S.

Americans' already-low economic confidence fell further in May.

news.gallup.com

while...
"Russia says U.S. 'adding fuel to the fire' by sending rockets to Ukraine"; U.S. President Joe Biden writing an opinion piece in the New York Times
-- Reuters reporting: Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters: "We believe that the United States is purposefully and diligently adding fuel to the fire."

Russia says U.S. rocket supplies to Ukraine risk widening conflict

Russia on Wednesday sharply criticised a U.S. decision to supply advanced rocket systems and munitions to Ukraine, warning it could widen the conflict and increase the risk of direct confrontation with Washington.

www.reuters.com

-- NY Times: U.S. President Biden Opinion Article: "Any use of nuclear weapons in this conflict on any scale would be completely unacceptable to us as well as the rest of the world and would entail severe consequences. Americans will stay the course with the Ukrainian people because we understand that freedom is not free."

Opinion | President Biden: What America Will and Will Not Do in Ukraine

The U.S. will help Ukraine be in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table. We do not want to prolong the war just to inflict pain on Russia.

www.nytimes.com

To me, the lede is that Gallup is stating the USA public is NOT concerned about Russia (3 percent), but IS concerned about "government/poor leadership" (19 percent) and economy (18 percent). I am not sure how much the military advocates of increased U.S. engagement in Ukraine/Russia War are taking U.S. public sentiment into consideration as U.S. military engagement is escalating in terms of missile systems to Ukraine. Hopefully, the Russian invasion of Ukraine can soon be stopped, but I think pulse is not fully appreciated by those (rightly) outraged by the Russia invasion, that to the majority of U.S. public, they don't view that as their priority or their fight.

If God Forbid an accident should happen or someone gets too aggressive and someone in Ukraine uses U.S. weapons on the Russian mainland (deserved or not), I would be concerned about a Russian escalation, and USA public not willing to fight that war, regardless of how many op-eds that President Biden writes for the NY Times. The people who will make the difference in the mid-term elections and in 2024 are not going to be glued to the NYT to hear his every word. They appear to be focused on their lives right here at the USA mainland, right now, and they are really upset that the Biden administration is not focused there (thus far).

 

[Guest]

To conquer Ukraine in 3 days? And who would have said that? Actually, you can't neither go through Ukraine in 3 days with a moto using highways.

So many failed goals and unfulfilled claims. They never took Kiev they didn’t hold their airstrips, the withdrew from Chernobyl. No it’s been pretty much o e military failure after another.
2/26/2022 Putin “Ukraine has already returned to Russia”
Did he misspeak or did his dreams of Ukrainians rushing into the arms of mother Russia just vaporize like the morning mist.

Наступление России и нового мира

Новый мир рождается на наших глазах. Военная операция России на Украине открыла новую эпоху — причем сразу в трех измерениях.

uz.sputniknews.ru

 

[Guest]

To me, the lede is that Gallup is stating the USA public is NOT concerned about Russia (3 percent), but IS concerned about "government/poor leadership" (19 percent) and economy (18 percent). I am not sure how much the military advocates of increased U.S. engagement in Ukraine/Russia War are taking U.S. public sentiment into consideration as U.S. military engagement is escalating in terms of missile systems to Ukraine. Hopefully, the Russian invasion of Ukraine can soon be stopped, but I think pulse is not fully appreciated by those (rightly) outraged by the Russia invasion, that to the majority of U.S. public, they don't view that as their priority or their fight.

If God Forbid an accident should happen or someone gets too aggressive and someone in Ukraine uses U.S. weapons on the Russian mainland (deserved or not), I would be concerned about a Russian escalation, and USA public not willing to fight that war, regardless of how many op-eds that President Biden writes for the NY Times. The people who will make the difference in the mid-term elections and in 2024 are not going to be glued to the NYT to hear his every word. They appear to be focused on their lives right here at the USA mainland, right now, and they are really upset that the Biden administration is not focused there (thus far).

I wouldn’t and your right Americans don’t seem to be to concerned either right now. Russia will either lose Ukraine permanently. The west will abandon them, or their will be a cease fire with some defined boarders.
Or there will be a major war and possible nuclear exchange.
If there is a cease fire and no material security guarantees for Ukraine. They should produce and deploy nuclear weapons for self defense as soon as possible. Because Putin will be back to eat from the same trough soon Enough

 

[bartok]

So many failed goals and unfulfilled claims. They never took Kiev they didn’t hold their airstrips, the withdrew from Chernobyl. No it’s been pretty much o e military failure after another.
2/26/2022 Putin “Ukraine has already returned to Russia”
Did he misspeak or did his dreams of Ukrainians rushing into the arms of mother Russia just vaporize like the morning mist.

Наступление России и нового мира

Новый мир рождается на наших глазах. Военная операция России на Украине открыла новую эпоху — причем сразу в трех измерениях.

uz.sputniknews.ru

We don't know Russian plans. Many hypothesis could be made about what you said. Maybe the offensive toward Kiev was a part of a deception plan, in order to mislead Ukrainian forces from the main attack effort on the Donbass front. Maybe they have tried the possibility of a sudden collapse of the military giving the idea of a massive offensive from any direction. Maybe, of course, Ukraine on the North was more powerfull than Russia thought. But any of those hypothesis mean a failure. The offensive from the North is likely to be restarted at any time and the breakthrough of the Donbass front is a matter of facts. Ukranian forces are retreacting, their logistic lines toward the front has been almost completely destroyed, their are recruiting people with almost any training, they are perched on difensive positions with any possibility to manouver and forced in a areal defence, against an enemy that has the full capacity to manover and hit. Military speaking, the Donbass front is destinated to be annihilated: it's clear, I don't have any doubts on that. In fact, IMHO, Ukranian military knows that and it is likely that they are sacrificing those people in order to gain time for a defensive strategy deep inside the Country, maybe on the West, with a probable intervention of Poland. It's hard to make futher hypothesis, but it is absolutely obvious that Russia is currently winning.

 

[Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱]

I have no idea how to embed a tweet like everyone else does.

Step 1, click the share button on any tweet as circled in red below:

Step 2, the sharing menu will pop up as shown below. Click the share link as highlighted below in red:

Step 3, finally just past the link here and the tweet will be embedded and show in full here on the forums.

 

[dryjoy]

Step 1, click the share button on any tweet as circled in red below:
View attachment 2111
Step 2, the sharing menu will pop up as shown below. Click the share link as highlighted below in red:
View attachment 2113
Step 3, finally just past the link here and the tweet will be embedded and show in full here on the forums.

Thank you!

 

[Yingyang]

No I meant just what I said, do it or don’t do it.
There was and is good unity with nato to do what ever can be done to support Ukraine. Ukraine’s we’re and are willing to fight for their country. So the support either needs to continue and not waver until Ukraine achieves their goals or settles.
Or not.

What would SK be today if they weren’t defended?
There are no crystal balls.

Or if we don’t care or are concerned then don’t cry to me about any international issues.
The not my war argument if your going to be true to it would have been no defense of China and Australia or Korea or Britain or France or Russia during Ww2 no oil embargo on Japan they don’t attack Pearl Harbor we ignore it and what would have become of SE Asia and Australia and china. We could have ignored Europe and where would that have eventually led to Germany would have Middle East oil and what would Europe look like today.
There are no easy answers but doing anything halfway rarely works.

Absolutely agree halfway like current nato support is stupid. Your in or out and with current situation, this is where the problem remains. The real stupid part is those in support of Ukraine should know this. Which gives meaning to history repeats. Also leading some to realise the higher possibility of outcomes.

 

[Guest]

Absolutely agree halfway like current nato support is stupid. Your in or out and with current situation, this is where the problem remains. The real stupid part is those in support of Ukraine should know this. Which gives meaning to history repeats. Also leading some to realise the higher possibility of outcomes.

Or classic demonstration of a expanding authoritarian willing to risk WW war because he believes it’s his nations right.
And I don’t know where this “leading some to realize” comes from. If you weren’t aware of the potential danger you weren’t paying attention.
Only the naive believed it could never happen again. Human nature is to expand and grow often times by force. It might not be everyone but enough will always percolate to the surface to insure nations will behave in aggressive manners.
Then your left with encouraging them. It to or war.
It’s just that simple war is the history of human civilizations. Ignore it pacify it mollify it at your own risk.

 

[Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱]

<snip, this post is fine, just quoting you so you know specifically I am talking about you.>

Whoever you are quoted @Guest username above but please be more level headed and less emotional in your posts. I have had to delete several of your posts in the approve query for guests as they where to obscene or overly aggressive to approve.

I would have private message you,... but since your a guest I have to say this publicly. Most your posts are fine, but quite a few have been "over the top"...

 

[REALHumanRights]

Or if we don’t care or are concerned then don’t cry to me about any international issues.

The USA globalist approach with capitalism worked when there were still industrial and manufacturing jobs for people who were not able to earn a living wage dependeng on a higher or advanced education. Taking that aspect of the U.S. economy away has created a degree of a permanent underclass in the USA in cities where people could once get a job in industry and/or manufacturing and survive. The USA industrial era was when we saw foreign wars and international involvement from what was a historically isolationist nation: WWI, WWII, the conventional warfare era, the creation of NATO, etc. So many think as if the USA and world has been frozen during that time, and has not changed. In fact, it is total opposite. The strategies, the creation of a "DoD" from a War Department, the global treaties and alliances, these were all created in a totally different USA and a totally different world. And in a USA with about half its current population.

In that 20th century world, the USA government and citizenry had more flexibility to consider international issues, because the homeland was more secure. People in urban areas like Pittsburgh or Baltimore or Chicago without an education, without privilege, no matter their race/religion/national origin, could go get a LIVING wage in a steel mill, in a manufacturing plant, etc. They could contribute to USA national defense (including foreign wars) because their nation, their jobs, their reality was secure. Globalist capitalist leaders believe that is the same USA and world today. And where they begrudgingly reflect there "has been some change," and working class can't get an industrial job, the privileged tell them to go get a job at McDonalds, or at a grocery store, or as a security guard. Jobs that had a part-time, student-level income at best. Or the ubiquitous "learn to code" sneer, as if their capitalist privilege is permanent.

This matters because people who are genuinely struggling to survive in USA are not really concerned about Ukraine, other than as a theoretical issue. Note: the USA has as many citizens living at the poverty line as the entire population of the Ukraine. This headline is not even the slightest consideration to the U.S. National Security analysts. People struggling in the USA legitimately ask: "who is going to save me? When is my government going to care about me?"

Of course, international issues do matter to USA citizens. But we are blind if we don't realize that some USA citizens can more afford to be more concerned about international issues than others. And there is still a very large group of USA citizens whose main concern on international issues are: "when will we get our jobs back, when will we get our industries back?" And of course, the answer is never. So the USA world of today, is not the USA world that created the DoD, created NATO, and those privileged in Washington DC who have defiantly ignored millions of suffering Americans who they are supposed to represent.

To the NatSec world, the suffering Americans are invisible. It is true irony of history that USA intelligence analysts can see the slightest foreign troop movement anywhere in the world, but they cannot see the suffering of their fellow Americans, and they genuinely believe they are working for "national security."

 

[guest]

Well, that's reassuring, except not really.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1532216474395414530

it is what it is as long as Russian cities are not targeted they would be fools to launch on NATO. They can lose in Ukraine or they can cease to exist.