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UA-RU | DISCUSSIONS

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DarkNoon said:
Not much because the alternative is for Ukraine to use US communication satellite networks which is the best in the world. So maybe Musk is doing Ukraine a favor and stepping aside so Ukraine can use a much much better satellite communication/internet network.
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We should of let them use our communication sat network in the first place instead of letting Ukraine depend on that jag off.
 
DarkNoon said:
Not much because the alternative is for Ukraine to use US communication satellite networks which is the best in the world. So maybe Musk is doing Ukraine a favor and stepping aside so Ukraine can use a much much better satellite communication/internet network.
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This is the voice of inexperience regarding DOD mobile/tactical networking for warfare and C4ISR mission for the warfighter.
Starlink was never designed to be a national mobile/tactical communications tool for C4ISR missions, of course.
But the idea that: (a) we are going to handover all of that technology in FMS to a non-NATO country during a hot-war with Russia to capture, and (b) that what is left of Ukraine military would know how to use that technology without significant USA military involvement in the hot war against Russia, is just a lack of experience.

I understand those who hate Musk now that (God Forbid) he dares to ask questions on a path to peace, during our ever esclating war efforts.
But the idea that Ukraine is going to get what they need to replace Starlink swiftly and effectively from the USA DOD simply does not understand what is involved.
Too much focus on conventional kinetic warfare, tanks, missiles, etc. can easily get those without experience to miss the point of Command and Control.

To those advocating sending masses of USA troops into the Ukraine to fight Russia, God Bless You and what is left of our country, after WW3 starts.
But let's remember, USA Congressional funding for Ukraine defense is not a Congressional funding for USA warfighters for a direct, undeclared war with Russia.
Those in USA who want a war with Russia, call your Congressional representative to do the honest thing and put forward a declaration of war.
Let Congress and the American people decide if they want such a war. Not our IC, not DOD, not POTUS, not our media. It is really not their call, according to the USA Constitution.
 
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REALHumanRights said:
But the idea that Ukraine is going to get what they need to replace Starlink swiftly and effectively from the USA DOD simply does not understand what is involved.
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Oh there going to get it, US doesn't have much of a choice now. US won't or can't let Ukraine fight blind. Not after all we have invested into Ukraine already. We already give them the most up to date intelligence. Not much of a stretch for them to access and use our communication networks.

Giving them the devices to do so won't be to overly complicated either. As for Russia possibly getting the devices there are ways to make sure Russia can't access the communications network even with stolen devices.

Also to think one can simply access highly protected US sat comms with a stolen device is nutts. Not that simple. I wish life was that simple. 😅
 
DarkNoon said:
Oh there going to get it, US doesn't have much of a choice now. US won't or can't let Ukraine fight blind. Not after all we have invested into Ukraine already. We already give them the most up to date intelligence. Not much of a stretch for them to access and use our communication networks.

Giving them the devices to do so won't be to overly complicated either. As for Russia possibly getting the devices there are ways to make sure Russia can't access the communications network even with stolen devices.

Also to think one can simply access highly protected US sat comms with a stolen device is nutts. Not that simple. I wish life was that simple. 😅
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Oh boy. Let's go airdrop Ukraine some walkie talkies and batteries too. There is a time to stop digging that hole.
Because after all, the DOD does not have millions of dollars for Starlink services. Yeah, right.
The very idea that “Starlink is the main way units on the battlefield have to communicate” is an actual literal miracle for the Ukraine military.
 
ZedBoy said:
We should cut supplies because they are now bombing foreign and sovereign countries!!
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Right. SO with your logic then Russia should be cut off from any selling/funding on global markets and supplies from the world should be stopped to Russia since they are bombing a foreign sovereign independent nations civilians. 🙄
 
Train said:
Guys, just a hunch - hot take, I know - but I feel as if DarkNoon doesn’t like Russia that much
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I use to just blame Putin. But Putin is only in power, still continuing his genocide in Ukraine, and bringing his own nation back 30 years because he is enabled by his citizens who are entirely complacent with it.

So yea its the Russians people fault as well after all this time. They know the truth but just don't care. Even their protests are weak as hell.
 
dryjoy said:
Well I’m just very anti-nuclear weapons. I would like to see a concerted effort to rid the world of these things for good, not tests and threats. I know it’s not realistic and I understand the issues of mutually assured destruction and all that, but it’s how I feel.
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I don’t disagree with the sentiment.
A lot of governments and societies would like to see private firearm ownership in the US be severely limited.

Here is the problem and I’m just being realistic about it. No weapon (which is a tool after all) Is never made to vanish after it’s development.
I’m not arguing from the place of what is right or wrong just what is real.
That being said the question then becomes finding the best and wisest method of ensuring the weapon does not ever need used.
We are 2 to 3 generations away from a more stabilized and culturally integrated society internationally. To where we will see real reductions in international conflict. Just a fact and the more we force this acceptance of international consensus. The more nations and groups will push back against those integrations.
Putin is pushing back against the west forcing change on Russia. But he is still willing to use force to enforce change or prevention of change in Ukraine.
He’s right to speak for his nation, but wrong to attempt to force it on others.

So we will go through this dust up in Ukraine and it will become part of our history books. We will likely survive it without Armageddon. There are no guarantees not from war nuclear or otherwise. Or getting jacked at a stop light or stabbed on the street in London.

Everyone clamors for this harmonious brotherly existence but it can’t be forced.
Changing language and meanings artificially or trying to artificially control people or nations will only force them to rebel more.

There is a great quote from Blackhawk Down. The Blackhawk pilot who’s captured.
The Somali captain tries to negotiate with the pilot about the UN leaving.
Of course the pilot says that’s not how it works, he can’t negotiate for anything.
The Somalian replies “Here in Somalia everyone who has a gun is a negotiator.

So we survived 70 years of nuclear Cold War. Both sides talked threatened and made public statements.
They fought with military build ups, espionage, destabilization attempts, assassinations.

People in the west view this as distasteful or morally wrong. Well we might want with our whole heart and reasoning for that to be true but just saying it doesn’t make it so. The US Declaration of Independence were the words that declared our independence, but it was the war that made it real.

But if you live in a world where adversaries will employ those same tactics you cannot afford to not respond in some way.
If nuclear weapons have been introduced into the public debate by a adversary you can’t ignore it and not have a measured public response.

Calls to pursue this war till Putin is removed or Zelinski is jailed or both dead are more destabilizing than replying to nuclear threat with policy statements.

We want everyone to talk before they push the button right?
Well their talking publicly and through diplomatic back-channels.

The nations of the world will learn from this standoff and we will be one more step towards a more stabilized world internationally. Where people groups in Asia the Mideast or North America are much less inclined to view each other as a enemy.
But that will be our children’s world.
And we will very likely survive that they will see it, but parts of it will be messy and bloody.
 
DarkNoon said:
I use to just blame Putin. But Putin is only in power, still continuing his genocide in Ukraine, and bringing his own nation back 30 years because he is enabled by his citizens who are entirely complacent with it.

So yea its the Russians people fault as well after all this time. They know the truth but just don't care. Even their protests are weak as hell.
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Glad you have finally come to this realization of reality. So then what. What is the end goal? Because Russia won't give up the Donbass and Crimea without a fight.
You want to call your Congressional representative to advocate a declaration of war against Russia... or not?
Serious question - because this goes both ways. The real question is the USA ready to go to WW3 with Russia over Donbass and Crimea- yes or no?
Because stringing the Ukraine people along and making them believe we will do anything more than protect the rest of Ukraine is disingenuous.
People should not be dying and having their homes destroyed over a war that we have no intention of fighting.
Because everything goes back to the end result goal.
 
Seriously said:
So we survived 70 years of nuclear Cold War.
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By USA and USSR not directly fighting. We have taken all of those years of "stability" and flushed them down the toilet in the past seven months.
And as it continues to escalate to direct USA v. Russia war, we inch closer to nuclear Hot War.
If I ever bother to vote again, it will against EVERYONE holding office today. I don't care their party, their position, their identity, etc.
Their advocacy and/or silence is enough to permanently disqualify them from public office.
Anyone who thinks this is acceptable has no place in representative government.
 
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REALHumanRights said:
because this goes both ways.
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No its one way. Russia invaded without any valid reason. It ends when Putin decides to end it, no one else.

REALHumanRights said:
People should not be dying and having their homes destroyed over a war that we have no intention of fighting
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Ukrainians are fighting until the very bloody end when Putin decides to end his brutal war against a neighboring nation for no valid reason.

Ukraine has every right to accept help in its defense against a genocidal invader hell bent of wiping their very national identity out.

In fact it is US obligation to aid or defend Ukraine because of you know that treaty we made them sign to give up their nukes? 🤦‍♂️ You know that treaty, the one Russia took a fat shit on by wrongfully invading them? 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
 
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