• Guests may view all public nodes. However, you must be registered to post.

UA-RU-NATO War | Discussions | Jun. 1st/Sep. 13th 2025

Status
Not open for further replies.
Peter Griffin said:
Knowing Trump these are perfectly acceptable terms and 'Ukraine should accept them immediately'. "insert soundbite of 47 saying there are people dying, innocent people, it really is a bad business you know, this war stuff. Zelensky should really step down and hold elections and allow Russia to take territory that they don't even control." (And before mods remove this for political talk, I can clip and source the moments that he has said pretty much the exact same thing.)
Click to expand...
Politically, my views align with yours. However it is important to recognise the U.S. administration knows these demands are unfair.
“Russia can’t expect to be given territory that they haven’t even conquered yet,” Vance told Fox News’ Martha MacCallum in an interview. “And that’s one of the things that they’ve put down in that initial peace plan.”
 
But like I said before, they are playing for time. The Russians continue to play Trump for a fool by engaging in these talks and making absurd demands and Ukraine knows that nothing substantial regarding a peace deal will come from these talks. They are doing it to not risk the ire of Trump. If Trump was smart he would immediately release a statement calling for the withdrawal of all Russian troops from occupied regions, and call for a demilitarization of all border oblasts in Russia proper. If the Russians want to make absurd demands, then we should be responding with the same. At least it wouldn't let Putin control the direction and pace at which the diplomatic talks are affecting battle effectiveness. We should be enraging Russia to make stupid decisions, while also keeping a level of strategic ambiguity. It's a tough line to walk but if done effectively we could be using his own mindgames against him. Not enough cutthroats in USG
 
7gtz said:
Politically, my views align with yours. However it is important to recognise the U.S. administration knows these demands are unfair.
“Russia can’t expect to be given territory that they haven’t even conquered yet,” Vance told Fox News’ Martha MacCallum in an interview. “And that’s one of the things that they’ve put down in that initial peace plan.”
Click to expand...
True, I would argue that the Administration has historically been the clarifier after any president says what they truly believe. We saw it with Biden and a lot more with Trump in his first term. He does seem to have his admin more in line with his beliefs and demeanor however, so he might well be pissed off with Putin for real this time. It matters now whether he cracks under the pressure or puts that pressure back on Russia. Something has to happen in response to Putin's unwillingness to compromise, these fake talks have been going on for well over a year now.
 
7gtz said:
I do believe we're heading down that path.
Click to expand...
He isn't entirely stupid, he knew what Putin made him look like all these years with the Kompromat allegations. The pseudo pro peace (which was actually just 'pro let Russia get as many wins in the shortest amount of time due to our temporary stoppage of aid and Intelligence, so people forget about it sooner' ) definitely did not make those allegations look good either. And then you start to go deeper into the money trail and you find a lotttt of the same people working with Trump who have also done some really, really shady fucking business deals in Russia or Ukraine. So whether or not the allegations were true, his image has forever been tainted by associating with that perceived pro russian stance, and with a good portion of his supporters legitimately thinking we should become best friends with Russia.
 
Peter Griffin said:
Knowing Trump these are perfectly acceptable terms and 'Ukraine should accept them immediately'. "insert soundbite of 47 saying there are people dying, innocent people, it really is a bad business you know, this war stuff. Zelensky should really step down and hold elections and allow Russia to take territory that they don't even control." (And before mods remove this for political talk, I can clip and source the moments that he has said pretty much the exact same thing.)
Click to expand...
No they’re not and yeah you can clip sound bites. But these terms aren’t acceptable to the fulfillment of the mineral deal.

Russias terms are unchanged from the beginning and what is new is nothing is new. Even if they are agreed to what would follow would be a insurgency war
 
OReid said:
No they’re not and yeah you can clip sound bites. But these terms aren’t acceptable to the fulfillment of the mineral deal.

Russias terms are unchanged from the beginning and what is new is nothing is new. Even if they are agreed to what would follow would be a insurgency war
Click to expand...
I think we agree? As you said these have been the terms that Russia has put forward since the beginning, however the administration is just now starting to lessen up on putting the blame on Zelensky. The months that they portrayed him as a dictator due to suspending elections could have been used solely calling Russia out for not coming forward for peace talks in good faith. If he is finally willing to recognize the lies that are coming from Russia for what they are, then I am not going to act like that isn't a good thing. I just wonder why the hell it took him this long, and why he cannot make amends with Zelensky.
 
Peter Griffin said:
But like I said before, they are playing for time. The Russians continue to play Trump for a fool by engaging in these talks and making absurd demands and Ukraine knows that nothing substantial regarding a peace deal will come from these talks.
Click to expand...
Playing for time for what though? What strategically on the battlefront has changed in the last 5 1/2 months? Not much actually. The largest strategic gain possible was yesterday drone attacks by Ukraine. Russia pounded Ukraine with air attacks leading up to the talks. Ukraine was able to respond with more effective.

But that’s it. The only thing that Putin can play for is some victory he can point to at home that shows these last four years haven’t been a wasted effort.
In the mean time Trump has indicated that if nato states are going to continue to support Ukraine. Then it’s going to take more commitment with military money and trade sanctions.
In the meantime the UK has “announced” what might be their largest defense build up change since WW2. And Blitz is coming to Washington for talks.

Russia had no big gains since Jan nothing is lost and Trump has demonstrated I think in good faith an effort to negotiate and end the war. Which if we do have to get more involved will shore up support domestically for the effort.

There was no way the US domestically was going to do anything more significantly to support Ukraine. Without a genuine effort at negotiating a peace.
You can scream and holler all you want. Its a political process not “Simon Sez”.


Is this how it will play out, will Trump throw down? Obviously I can’t know this.
But he wouldn’t and couldn’t without this process taking place.
We’re not Russia, there are no dicta’s from a supreme leader in the Republic. Or at least we’re not supposed to operate that way.
 
Peter Griffin said:
I think we agree? As you said these have been the terms that Russia has put forward since the beginning, however the administration is just now starting to lessen up on putting the blame on Zelensky. The months that they portrayed him as a dictator due to suspending elections could have been used solely calling Russia out for not coming forward for peace talks in good faith. If he is finally willing to recognize the lies that are coming from Russia for what they are, then I am not going to act like that isn't a good thing. I just wonder why the hell it took him this long, and why he cannot make amends with Zelensky.
Click to expand...
They met in Rome and had seemingly agreed upon results.
It’s easy to paint zelinsky as a bad guy in some circles. Elections suspended, some churches shut down ect. But I don’t see that he had much of a choice in some of those decisions. And he is desperate as he should be
The relations and feelings of harmony with France during the revolutionary war were not that harmonious until France sent their navy. Then as the movie goes “Vive la France”
 
No confirmation

This information was published on Kremlin-funded & controlled outlet Tsargrad on May 31st, one day before Ukraine's operation Spiderweb.The article was then deleted on June 1st once Russia lost 1/3 of its strategic bomber fleet, with Russia's operation for that night aborted.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1929721074847281369
 
alphaecho said:
No confirmation

This information was published on Kremlin-funded & controlled outlet Tsargrad on May 31st, one day before Ukraine's operation Spiderweb.The article was then deleted on June 1st once Russia lost 1/3 of its strategic bomber fleet, with Russia's operation for that night aborted.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1929721074847281369
Click to expand...
If true, this is no "Pearl Harbor" like what the Russian milbloggers were going on about, but more like the Battle of Midway, where an impending strike is thwarted at the last minute and turns the tide.
 
HoldFast said:
If true, this is no "Pearl Harbor" like what the Russian milbloggers were going on about, but more like the Battle of Midway, where an impending strike is thwarted at the last minute and turns the tide.
Click to expand...
Damn. I should have thunk of that!
Outstanding <if true>
 
Snowfall said:
If they managed to hit the thing for a third time days after the bomber attack then Russian intelligence is more incompetent than imaginable.
Click to expand...
Correct. and to me that is the biggest takeaway from these 2 attacks.
the damage inflicted is an aside, a major aside, but this is the bigger of the two takeaways.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom