I see where your coming from and appreciate your genuine response not based off of partisan politics. My following response will be a genuine response.
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Capitalism Is *Not* the Problem. What We Built Out of It Is Decay or Rot.
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I appreciate that response, genuinely.
Honestly, I think that is the exact tension a lot of serious people feel. On one side, there is the instinct to keep government limited because history shows overreach can become dangerous.
On the other, there is the moral reality that charity alone cannot be expected to carry the weight of structural failure.
That is where I land.
My issue is not capitalism, and it is not charity.
My issue is when the system becomes so distorted that charity starts acting as a substitute for basic balance and correction.
To me, that is where guardrails come in. Not unlimited government, not socialism, not abolishing markets, but corrections when concentration and imbalance go too far.
Charity is good. But it should be a supplement or any kind of safety net by the state to ensure even most a healthy society....
Honestly, I think that is the exact tension a lot of serious people feel. On one side, there is the instinct to keep government limited because history shows overreach can become dangerous.
On the other, there is the moral reality that charity alone cannot be expected to carry the weight of structural failure.
That is where I land.
My issue is not capitalism, and it is not charity.
My issue is when the system becomes so distorted that charity starts acting as a substitute for basic balance and correction.
To me, that is where guardrails come in. Not unlimited government, not socialism, not abolishing markets, but corrections when concentration and imbalance go too far.
Charity is good. But it should be a supplement or any kind of safety net by the state to ensure even most a healthy society....
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I happen to believe I live in one of the greatest countries ever conceived by man. You want change how about this.
Food prices to high. Start a garden. Even in metro areas you can have community gardens on rooftops or vacant lots. Buy a cow and pig and some chickens and learn how to butcher them or build a chicken coup for eggs. Hunt, fish and trap for meat also. If you live in a city, I'll bet you could pay a local farm outside the city to care for your animals. Even in the cities you could have designated areas for the raising of community livestock. Maybe get rid of the dog walking parks. I'll bet the price of groceries would go down if people stopped going or at least cut way back.
Gas prices to high. Take public transportation, carpool, bicycle or walk in metro areas. in rural areas just stay on the farm. No need to leave anyway because you'd be self-sufficient and wouldn't need much from town. Use a car or truck very seldom. You could even get a horse and plow the old-fashioned way and use the horse for short jaunts to visit neighbors or go to town. I'll bet the price of gas and diesel would come down real quick.
Medical cost to high. Don't buy insurance. I'll bet if people stopped buying it the cost of it would go down. The only insurance you should need anyway is major medical for serious long-term hospital stays. The everyday stuff should be handled by your local community's doctor's office, and you pay out of pocket or whatever you can afford. Back in the day the local Dr. would actually make house calls. Imagine that.
Price of drugs to high. Learn how to get them from nature which most drugs are derived from anyway. Personally, I believe that if you eat home grown bread, meat and vegetables that aren't loaded with chemicals you wouldn't need half the drugs big pharma wants to push on us now.
Utility bills to high. If you live in a cold climate, get a wood stove. You can even use the sawdust to insulate your house after cutting your firewood.
Live in a warm climate, open the windows at night when it's cooler and close them during the day when it's hot. You can even put a block of ice in front of a fan to blow cool air instead of running an air conditioner 24/7. Get rid of subscription TV and cell phone service, put up an antenna and use a land line for phone service, unplug all the stuff when you're not actually using it. Just looking around my little office space here there is 8 things plugged in sucking up power.
Rent or taxes to high. This is where community activism and the 2nd comes in. This is all we can afford and is all you're going to get. Get off my property or out of this building if you are an apartment dweller. Don't want to pay a living wage. Fine we won't work for you. The community HAS to stick together on this.
IMO conservatism is the answer. Not more government. The ONLY thing I want government to do is wage war when it is called for.
Food prices to high. Start a garden. Even in metro areas you can have community gardens on rooftops or vacant lots. Buy a cow and pig and some chickens and learn how to butcher them or build a chicken coup for eggs. Hunt, fish and trap for meat also. If you live in a city, I'll bet you could pay a local farm outside the city to care for your animals. Even in the cities you could have designated areas for the raising of community livestock. Maybe get rid of the dog walking parks. I'll bet the price of groceries would go down if people stopped going or at least cut way back.
Gas prices to high. Take public transportation, carpool, bicycle or walk in metro areas. in rural areas just stay on the farm. No need to leave anyway because you'd be self-sufficient and wouldn't need much from town. Use a car or truck very seldom. You could even get a horse and plow the old-fashioned way and use the horse for short jaunts to visit neighbors or go to town. I'll bet the price of gas and diesel would come down real quick.
Medical cost to high. Don't buy insurance. I'll bet if people stopped buying it the cost of it would go down. The only insurance you should need anyway is major medical for serious long-term hospital stays. The everyday stuff should be handled by your local community's doctor's office, and you pay out of pocket or whatever you can afford. Back in the day the local Dr. would actually make house calls. Imagine that.
Price of drugs to high. Learn how to get them from nature which most drugs are derived from anyway. Personally, I believe that if you eat home grown bread, meat and vegetables that aren't loaded with chemicals you wouldn't need half the drugs big pharma wants to push on us now.
Utility bills to high. If you live in a cold climate, get a wood stove. You can even use the sawdust to insulate your house after cutting your firewood.
Live in a warm climate, open the windows at night when it's cooler and close them during the day when it's hot. You can even put a block of ice in front of a fan to blow cool air instead of running an air conditioner 24/7. Get rid of subscription TV and cell phone service, put up an antenna and use a land line for phone service, unplug all the stuff when you're not actually using it. Just looking around my little office space here there is 8 things plugged in sucking up power.
Rent or taxes to high. This is where community activism and the 2nd comes in. This is all we can afford and is all you're going to get. Get off my property or out of this building if you are an apartment dweller. Don't want to pay a living wage. Fine we won't work for you. The community HAS to stick together on this.
IMO conservatism is the answer. Not more government. The ONLY thing I want government to do is wage war when it is called for.
I believe that too. But I do not let patriotism override my analysis.
I am an American, yes, but at the end of the day my job is to follow facts, not national pride, party loyalty, or propaganda. Loving your country does not mean blinding yourself on its behalf.
Regardless of side, party, preference, or country, facts are what matter. That is the standard I hold myself to. ALWAYS. I CANNOT SAY MY BIAS DOESN'T INTERDICT IN MY ANALYSIS.... BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY I TRY MY HARDEST TO PUT MYSELF IN OTHER SHOES. WHO CAN HONESTLY SAY THE SAME.
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Believe it or not there are actually conservatives on both sides of the isle.
I know that very well. I have lived it.
I used to lean left as an independent. Over the last few years I have shifted more to the right, still as an independent.
But none of that changes the larger point......... I am loyal to facts first, not party, not country, and not tribe.
Everything I said above still stands.
I am not asking anyone to change parties. I am asking people to question their own side instead of treating every talking point handed to them as truth.
Because again at the end of the day it doesn't require much research both sides rather Republican or Democrat are funded both by the same sides. I shouldn't have to explain or hand hold anybody's hand exactly what that implicates.
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This is where you and I differ. Charity should be the first level, not the last. The government should step in when charity fails. The problem is that we have become so hard-hearted that charity is a last resort instead of the first go-to.
Wood is actually one of the most expensive ways to heat a home unless you can harvest it yourself from your own stock.
Before I respond to your post, please acknowledge that you have read my post above. I cannot respond to your post unless you first confirm that you have read it, or at least acknowledge that you understand it:
I know that very well. I have lived it.
I used to lean left as an independent. Over the last few years I have shifted more to the right, still as an independent.
But none of that changes the larger point: I am loyal to facts first, not party, not country, and not tribe.
Everything I said above still stands.
Because again at the end of the day it doesn't require much research both sides rather Republican or Democrat are funded both by the same sides. I shouldn't have to explain or hand hold anybody's hand exactly what that implicates.
I understand where you are coming from. I just hope you can extend the same in return.
That is my whole point in this thread... we cannot arrive at any serious position on what went wrong if people cannot even acknowledge that something is wrong.
This thread is not about fixing it.It is about recognizing the problem, and that alone seems to be where most people get stuck.......,.
We are not here to solve it. No one is going to salvage something this large in a single thread.
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90 acres. I could if I wanted to but I'm lazy, buy it cut split and delivered.
They even stack it for me.Can't beat a nice wood fire when it's 10 below zero.
For people who have land, resources, and the ability to be more self sufficient, sure, some of that can work.90 acres. I could if I wanted to but I'm lazy, buy it cut split and delivered.
Can't beat a nice wood fire when it's 10 below zero.
But that is also part of my point.
Most people do not have 90 acres. Most people do not have the money, land, time, or flexibility to just detach themselves from the system whenever it starts failing them.
Self sufficiency is good where it is possible.
I am not against that. But a functioning society should not require near total self sufficiency just for ordinary people to stay afloat. To say otherwise quite frankly is not smart... no other way to put it...That is where I disagree with the larger idea. Individual adaptation can help at the margins. It does not solve structural imbalance.
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I have read your post.
And?.....
Thank you. Then here is where I think we differ, respectfully.
I do not disagree that charity should be first in moral terms. In a healthy society, it should be. Where I differ is that charity cannot carry a structural problem indefinitely once that problem reaches scale.
That is my whole point.
Charity is a virtue. It matters. But when ordinary people increasingly need charity just to stay afloat under the weight of broader economic conditions, that tells me the problem is no longer merely personal. It is structural.
So I am not arguing against charity. I am arguing that charity should supplement a healthy society, not be forced to function as the primary buffer for systemic imbalance.
That is absolutely 100% wrong anyone saying otherwise is just telling themselves a lie to make themselves feel more comfortable.
Regardless Democrat or Republican so again spare me the theatrics, director, staff, or regular member fluff. Yawn, don't care, only care about facts.
I'm not here to win anybody over.
I have come to realize a long time ago that if you're trying to win anybody over on these forums you're already in a losing battle.I don't care what anybody feel about me WHOEVER you are, I'm talking about the truth here.
The only thing I care about here is getting the truth right not party partisan and politics or the party line carried correctly. 
Again both parties are toxic and poison to America democrat or republican both parties are wrong for America and both parties are not for America.
Both parties exactly funded by the same exact people.
Again both parties are toxic and poison to America democrat or republican both parties are wrong for America and both parties are not for America.Both parties exactly funded by the same exact people.
Doesn't take a rocket scientist or in fact anybody with any college degree whatsoever to figure this out.
Literally would take any American even without ZERO educational degree whatsoever to figure this out. JUST with a simple Google search. But Americans are too bothered with a simple Google search to even figure out where they're most basic information is coming from.
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That is certainly a good point.
Again sad, again depressing. Honestly we almost deserve what is coming for us because the most simple and most basic Americans can't even take two seconds out of their lives to fact check stuff.
Then ordinary Americans with even a half a right of mind wonder how corporate America can quite literally skull fuck us time and again without learning our lesson... doesn't make any sense. Private interests and corporate America trying to convince both parties Republican and Democrats that they're fighting each other over a "future" but at the end of the day fighting for the same exact thing, private interests future, not Americans or America itself, which is exactly what I'm telling you.
The deputy director @RiffRaff try to warn me of the same thing 2 year or so ago and I ignored him and of course I blew up publicly and got banned because I didn't know how to control my emotions because of Petty party politics because both the Democrats and Republicans were brainwashing me into exceptionalism but in the most wrong way when people hear exceptionalism they hear the best you can do what I heard was to the best you can do for your party and that was right.... For years. I finally learned my lesson that neither party is correct, left or right, is for both wrong, both are controlled by the same people and at the end of the day it doesn't matter what their policy differences they both take directions from the same influencers the same donors the same corporations.
Then ordinary Americans with even a half a right of mind wonder how corporate America can quite literally skull fuck us time and again without learning our lesson... doesn't make any sense. Private interests and corporate America trying to convince both parties Republican and Democrats that they're fighting each other over a "future" but at the end of the day fighting for the same exact thing, private interests future, not Americans or America itself, which is exactly what I'm telling you.
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I am not calling for this. What was it hillery said, "it takes a community." Neighbor helping neighbor.For people who have land, resources, and the ability to be more self sufficient, sure, some of that can work.
But that is also part of my point.
Most people do not have 90 acres. Most people do not have the money, land, time, or flexibility to just detach themselves from the system whenever it starts failing them.
Self sufficiency is good where it is possible.
I never claimed to be smart!
You know what's embarrassingly shameful is that most elections including local funding is made public for elections. People aren't even bother to take 2 minutes out of their lives to see who's funding their own local elections......... Ffs........ I'm not even talking about state government..... or federal government elections..... I'm talking about local city government, people can't even take two seconds out of their lives to see that. Ffs.
My point is it doesn't matter whether it's your own city government, whether it's your state government, whether it's the federal government, they're all funded by the same f****** people at the end of the day.
What's really depressing is that corporate America has both the left and right both Democrat and Republican fighting each other over nonexistent issues when the real issue is corporate America skull f****** normal people out of their daily living.
And have brainwashed the majority of people democrat or republican questioning the very institution as heresy.
Sad. Depressing.
Then Democrats and Republicans question why the country is the way it is. Shame!
THIS For f*** stakes people, all of you, have lost the right to play stupid, everyone needs to own up, like me, or just accept defeat at this point and let the dictators roll over us because that is exactly the track we're on if we continue this defeatism because it seems like the majority of Americans have succumb to the elitist propaganda that the situation is so out of control there's nothing anyone can do about it, so "just let it be" has become the sentiment of America.
Shame.
We deserve what's coming because of our collective stupidity. And that is the most nice way I could put it.
Disappointed in myself, disappointed in all you Americans, disappointed in my country. We deserve collectively as a nation what's coming. It's our price for... forgetting history.
Regardless what I think we should suffer... it's coming. I'm simply saying the statistical future is justified for our ignorance and NO ONE should be shocked of the soon resulting consequences in ALL our life times if not already for the decades of multiple administrations failures based off entirely false pretenses of party politics and not actual policy planning.
I fell for the b*******, I'm just hoping I can wake other people up to the b*******. It took me many years.. I am just hoping I can help people skip the part of being lied to and manipulated by your own party and realize that neither side is for you.
Wake up sheeple. As contrived as that sounds.
My point is it doesn't matter whether it's your own city government, whether it's your state government, whether it's the federal government, they're all funded by the same f****** people at the end of the day.
What's really depressing is that corporate America has both the left and right both Democrat and Republican fighting each other over nonexistent issues when the real issue is corporate America skull f****** normal people out of their daily living.
And have brainwashed the majority of people democrat or republican questioning the very institution as heresy.Sad. Depressing.
Then Democrats and Republicans question why the country is the way it is. Shame!
THIS
For f*** stakes people, all of you, have lost the right to play stupid, everyone needs to own up, like me, or just accept defeat at this point and let the dictators roll over us because that is exactly the track we're on if we continue this defeatism because it seems like the majority of Americans have succumb to the elitist propaganda that the situation is so out of control there's nothing anyone can do about it, so "just let it be" has become the sentiment of America.Shame.
We deserve what's coming because of our collective stupidity. And that is the most nice way I could put it.
Disappointed in myself, disappointed in all you Americans, disappointed in my country. We deserve collectively as a nation what's coming. It's our price for... forgetting history.
Regardless what I think we should suffer... it's coming. I'm simply saying the statistical future is justified for our ignorance and NO ONE should be shocked of the soon resulting consequences in ALL our life times if not already for the decades of multiple administrations failures based off entirely false pretenses of party politics and not actual policy planning.
I fell for the b*******, I'm just hoping I can wake other people up to the b*******. It took me many years.. I am just hoping I can help people skip the part of being lied to and manipulated by your own party and realize that neither side is for you.Wake up sheeple. As contrived as that sounds.