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Greenland, Canada, Panama & Trumps Ambitions For Them --(CLOSED)
- Thread starter NuclearID
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- Apr 8, 2017
They require a lot of European countries to develop it financially and technologically. I've heard a lot of stories from friends in the industry, and I'm kind of wanting to see the United States Attack either Canada/Mexico because I want to see if what I'm hearing about is true. If it is, I think we'll all in for a rude awaking about sourcing parts and tech from other countries (and their scientists/developers).Funny thing is, Lockheed Martin actually relies on Canadian subcontractors to build the stupid jet - for example, Magellan Aerospace (based in Winnipeg) builds the horizontal tail assemblies - and there are other dependencies too.
As for governments being stupid - it took less than two months for the US government to make an enemy out of their closest ally. And for what?
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- Apr 8, 2017
They don't pay Americans enough to do this work. There's a reason why a lot of the factory and shittily paid work won't gather people and most people are going into nursing, STEM, and basic business degrees. If you don't compensate well in the fields people don't want to do, you won't meet deadlines and your project will possibly die right off the bat. Even if you offer free-healthcare, and a wage of $25 an hour to the youth it's not worth it, even the educational help... it's not worth it.
You're losing out of 4-6 years of just going into debt to go into college and make 80-90k starting once you get out of college and if you're smart and start at a community college you're likely only going to net 40k of debt which is easily payable.
There isn't a tradeoff for employees working the shitty labor to do it because 1 they likely won't have time to go to a college or finish in a reasonable amount of time without being heavily unhealthy (sleep deprovation/burnout), 2 they will likely have more health issues than someone who's going to take lower wage blue collar job that pays slightly under what the factory slavework is paying.
My question for you:
Why would Americans want to work those shitty jobs...because they have to "live"... that's the most (and I won't use this word lightly): retarded idea ever. If you know right now that you're going to live in constant pain with no way out: you're going to slowly have your money siphoned from your pockets to pay for medical treatment or bills which will climb in cost due to having to take loans which will climb in your minimum payment (via APR) how are you ever going to have a good life? What's the difference in killing yourself now vs just getting exploited and kicked to the curb then dying?
I think while some of you brag about we need the manufacturing base back and comment on why we are losing so much in terms of factories/menial work.... you need to look at the core problem. The reason is because it's not worth it. For the companies yes, for the Americans no... you get shitty conditions, shitty pay, and shitty healthcare that will (even if you get the healthcare) will slowly push you into debt eating more and more of your funds, till you get to a terminal age of 50-60 then you can maybe save if you are blessed to have an okay position making more than 70-80k without working 60+ hours a week.
My first software job in America was 180k +40-90k bonus at 19 (no family help). My second job was a paycut due to a dream project: 150k+40k bonus. my third job averaged out to be about 650k a year (due to equity aka the stock options in the startup that's now a major company). my fourth job was my own business.
Please explain to me right now and I know it's touchy:
If you were told you're going to slave, be in pain, and not have enough disciplinary funds to do anything nice in life or even be painless in terms of medical/dental side...would you want to work? I'm telling you I personally would have killed myself. You want me to work in factory losing my time and my life and ability to get educated... and pay me like garbage and give me (maybe give me) shitty healthcare which will give me outrageous co-pays to the point I'll be in debt and be forced to work for you longer?
That's what I call not logical, it's better to die and provide nothing of benefit to society if you wake up every day knowing you won't afford even a middle-class lifestyle because you got put in the loop of debt because of dental/health/minimal lifestyle maintenance...
Can someone be logical on the forum for 1 moment:
Lets be very very transparent and I know the mods will get on my case about this:
What's the difference between just killing yourself and saving yourself the pain that's known to come from the system from uneducated work and the constant loop of poverty that will slowly make you homeless even if you're being a productive person in society? (because lets be honest, at a certain age your changes are extremely low or non-existent to break the loop). |If someone is 45 and they are still stuck in this loop.. yeah you might be fucked. If you're 18-30 maybe not... but once you're 30...it's not looking good.|. You have to look at age, your financial standing, and your options, and if they don't equal up to a possibility that's reasonable... it's just not going to work out for me. If my life was like it was before 25 at the age of 30+ I wouldn't be here because I would have had a very bad economical chance to get out of that poverty loop.
Vs
Slowly losing your health over 20 years, going into heavy medical debt, heavy dental debt, heavy debt just to afford a minimal apartment, slowly pain sets in to the point it's unbearable but you have to get up and work so you can maybe gather the money to maybe get treatment for a reasonable price. ooopsie you make just a little over the medicaid assistance boundary so no sir you have to pay with work insurance oh... you don't have the money...here use this credit card we are partnered with and bring your credit score to a 560 over time because we know you'll never have enough for it.
The only difference is you're taking less of a net negative and you're going to have a lot less pain when you kill yourself. Meanwhile if you just get bent over and raped by the system and don't think logically about the implications of what it's doing to you... you'll see it's made this way to keep you at that shitty job unable to dedicate time to skill up or get the opportunity for a better life.
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- Indiana, US
Who knows. But making Canada the 51st state is so patently ridiculous that they can't possibly be serious, so what's really going on that they want us focused on that so badly?Such as?
You really got me on a cliffhanger here.
Typical American politics. At some point in the future, I'll resurrect this thread, mention you in a commeny that says, "See? I told you so."
Until then, enjoy your popcorn. Make mine with extra butter, please?
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They just discovered a lizard alien in the Oval Office. Oh, suddenly, the office became triangular (Sarcasm)
Seriously, what if they're actually being ridiculous for no reason?
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It’s true that things like this are used to cover up the back stories. It’s important to remember that both sides can and do have ulterior motives and positions.AGAIN...TRUTH.....
It is possible, although not quantitatively provable, that Trump and his rhetoric has pushed Ottawa to hard and made things worse for a time.
It is also evident that international concerns and entities (banks and organizations like the EU, WEF and others) are absolutely not happy with Trumps reelection. And this displeasure is being magnified in the trade and cooperation affairs between the US and its neighbors.
So which unpleasant actor came first, that is what all this song and dance is about.
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It’s also typical Mexican and Canadian responses as well. The only reason they don’t react so indignant or affronted more often is they are so rarely at odds with with the international banking and corporatist agendas that they customarily share with US leadership.
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Please list what you know about the Canadian people. I would like to point out that Mexico and Canada are two very different countries.
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Famous last words.
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- Fly over country
I would point out that the reason they don’t pay enough is because the jobs were off loaded overseas for cheap labor.
This argument of not paying enough is used as a proof for why manufacturing jobs shrank in the US. Ignoring the fact of labor cost competition overseas is the instigator of this pay gap reality.
It also ignores the reality that it was those so called shitty paying jobs that built and sustained the middle class in the states.
The reality was and is at the encouragement of big banks and international corporations free trade was morphed into a virtually unregulated free for all where manufacturing could follow the lowest labor price virtually anywhere in the world.
So the argument that shitty jobs don’t pay enough to sustain themselves is only facially correct if only scrutinized at the national level.
Unrestrained free trade like monopolistic activities are always evaluated and judged according to the context and environment which they exist in and the influence they can exert over that environment.
Lobbying for more tech sector, medical services, or business jobs or does nothing to alleviate the problem at hand. Why? Because all labor sectors all have finite limits on workers.
In the short run it does provide decent jobs and relief. But eventually when that sector is saturated the wages will be negatively impacted. Kind of like domestic manufacturing being negatively impacted by international labor competition.
Regarding STEM fields, they are essential and should be supported, agreed. But anyone claiming that they can sustain the majority of the labor market in any nations is not being honest. One, they too have a saturation point. Two not all people are predisposed to be proficient in these fields.
There are a whole host of jobs in any society that exist that most don’t want to do. The dirty jobs that can’t be exported and will always have to be done. Those jobs still do demand a respectable income for those inclined. Doing shitty work does sometimes have its advantages. Trust me I work in waste water treatment.
There is finally the national security aspect of any nations economic, manufacturing, and R&D, and trade policies. A nation that would allow its economic engine to be picked clean by unregulated free trade. Solely to drive international corporate profits or buy political clout.
With no real effort to protect or steer and protect its labor markets and citizens economic security is a fool at best. And an enemy of its people in the end.
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These are complicated and intricate issues that nations today face. No nation or group of nations will ever adopt and implement the perfect set of policies. That will never need adjusting or changing.
I don’t propose to know exactly what needs to happen for my nation. Or if Trump is on track for the most part.
I do know that past US regulatory, trade, and financial policies are past their shelf life and expired. That something’s do need to change and that this process is going to be painful and as always loudly ridiculed.
There will be mistakes made but when other course of human activity are mistakes not made. And who knows we might find that in one of those mistaken actions something new might be discovered that enlarges the betterment of humanity more that the 20th century ever provided.
Either way now or later some changes where always good to occur.
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Do you even read the news?
Fresh Chinese tariffs on Canadian agricultural and food products open new front in brewing trade war
China announced on Saturday that it will impose additional tariffs on Canada from March 20, deepening concerns over a global trade war.
www.businessinsider.com
Canada rallies against Russian ‘aggression’ as new US tone splits G-7
Canada, current G7 president, is gathering foreign ministers for three days of talks. Read more at straitstimes.com. Read more at straitstimes.com.
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Of course, I know all that, I said later, not now, provided that the trade war with the USA escalates, we will see that laterDo you even read the news?
Fresh Chinese tariffs on Canadian agricultural and food products open new front in brewing trade war
China announced on Saturday that it will impose additional tariffs on Canada from March 20, deepening concerns over a global trade war.
Canada rallies against Russian ‘aggression’ as new US tone splits G-7
Canada, current G7 president, is gathering foreign ministers for three days of talks. Read more at straitstimes.com. Read more at straitstimes.com.www.straitstimes.com
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Sure thing
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- Indiana, US
The beauty of this debate is that somebody will be proven right or wrong within the next four years. Place your bets, gentlemen!
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- Apr 8, 2017
I would point out that the reason they don’t pay enough is because the jobs were off loaded overseas for cheap labor.
What sense does that statement make? I (me) personally won't go down to whole foods and pay $25 bucks for bread when I can go to Walmart and get the same bread for $5 if it meets the requirements of the prior.
Menial labor is the same thing as bread, you can pay 25 or 5 for the same product. Another issue is if you aren't an established brand it costs a lot more to make the product than an established brand.. aka Walmart/amazon and big box is cheep because they can bulk buy because they have warehouses compared to local shops.
When we talk about educated fields there is a lot more that go into it. Your line worker is menial, your scientist who creates the formulation of the materials that the lineman just monitors/pushes the button on for blank seconds or bends for blank seconds is menial. Money today is generated in the formation or creation of an operation, not in the manufacturing itself. We care about the efficiency/reduction of waste in our product, we care about the time it takes to create via our methods/formula.
When you are at the store you don't give a fuck if the deodorant is mint from dial or mint from Gillette, sometimes brand awareness helps that via ads. Why do people prefer McDonald over KFC or Subway over Paneria bread. It's the formula created by the degree/uppers. Not the people on the line because the people on the line have minimal impact on the product. It's all about the formula and the system in place created by the architects and the engineers/chemical people. Sure you can fuck up the production line via raising temps and neglecting it outright, but it's easy to replace people on a line via moving operations if you can't find enough.
My issue is America is no longer a country of production, but of formulas. The medical field in a whole is a formula from root canals to heart surgery, and nursing. Law is the same, tech is the same, and so are many other fields including even the basics of construction. America in the future will be predominantly trade (formula based trades people who are doing new things) and Intelligent work. We won't have people following a step by step process in the "creation" aka line workers: the reason is because they can't afford a good lifestyle or the ability to do it.
So this is where it gets really weird and I've had friends in other industries push for this and I think it's unethical. We want to make simpler systems to pay the "lower denominator" is the word they use (individuals with disabilities/heavy mental (disabilities). To do the work because it would allow individuals who aren't currently in the workforce to participate and earn some extra money even though that money wouldn't be good enough for a person not living on disability.
So I mean that's a good way to bring manufacturing back which is simplify it even more so the "lower demonstrator" as they call it can work and fill those jobs for that low pricing because a normal person won't fill it. The future of money as an employee is in creating formulas, not being apart of the formula.
Limits: I PERSONALLY don't believe tech has a limit as we still have a lot of areas to create formulas in and provide them to companies from big topics to really small topics. The workers in the tech industry that are basically just programming the solution that others have provided to them won't be successful in the next 30 years. You have to be willing to create your own formula and you'll always be employable. The key issue is for stuff to get cheaper I believe we need to appeal to what these businesses are referring to as the "lower denominator" and implement them into the workforce with super simple work. Meanwhile we need to open the door to train the future generations to focus on creating a formula instead of being a cog in the formula. Because the cogs will always get cheaper, the groundbreaking formulas won't.
If we want manufacturing aka the cog to work again we need to offer benefits that make it so they can't refuse. This is government subsidization which would be kind of communist... The cog needs offered subsidized living such as housing credits by the workplace/government (if they are fulfilling a role that needs fulfilled for american security/manufacturing. I believe if we had either heavy tax breaks or the government offering free-healthcare or housing credits for the cog they would work. If someone knows that they are being cheated and they won't be able to survive off a wage and have no support why would they partake in that role? this would also bring the cost to "employ" down especially if we had the two sectors of public and private working together to house these workers and offer no cost medical to them.
Meanwhile the people who are making the formulas are excluded from this policy and pay themselves because the formula creators make more than enough money to sustain themselves. If we don't have a system like this America's manufacturing is gone. We need to implement the "lower denominator" into the workforce or we need to offer benefits that let the cog feel valued in terms of housing credits and medical credits.
I'm okay personally with paying 40% tax, maybe 50% if the deal for the rest of America is good. I make over 650k a year. I can live off 150k in almost any state. It doesn't hurt me to get taxed high if it means general america receives help and the cog feels valued. I could clear easily 5m a year if I didn't value my workforce and wanted to chop our housing program and our medical program thus making them lose more.
(but it makes us competitive because people have to worry about less: it's also cheaper than our employees going out and doing it themselves because we get bundled deals based on the amount of people we "register for".)
Prime example of cog getting cheeper but formula isn't:
The price of a laptop 10 years ago vs the price of a laptop now. The price of a home blender now vs in the past. The price of a nuclear reactor in the past compared to now, the price of renting a server now vs in the past (which is very very cheep), the price of a camera now compared to in the past. The price of a phone now vs in the past (and the modules such as camera, touch screen, and such that are now included with them).
The devices to produce a product are cheeper and simpler, the formula or underlying concept of the formula is still the same price
Think of facebook...facebook is just a computer program a formula, yet it's worth a lot more now than before...yet the servers it operates on are cheeper. Same thing for the NSA datacenters... they are cheeper to operate on now, but the forumals to compute are expensive to purchase/have consulting on.
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- May 15, 2022
For the record - I don't think the world has four years left. But assuming it does - the US might not be ready to invade Canada in four years' time, but that doesn't mean it won't be actively preparing for it. Remember it took Russia 8 years to gear up for a full-scale invasion of Ukraine (and even that was a rush job).
If I understand you correctly, your timeframe is based on the assumption that there will be a presidential election in four years' time, followed by a peaceful transfer of power. Yeah, nope; I'm not betting a broken penny on that.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2024
Congratulations, not many Americans understand this; in fact, Canada should annex the USA. We already have almost all of that in your description.I would point out that the reason they don’t pay enough is because the jobs were off loaded overseas for cheap labor.
What sense does that statement make? I (me) personally won't go down to whole foods and pay $25 bucks for bread when I can go to Walmart and get the same bread for $5 if it meets the requirements of the prior.
Menial labor is the same thing as bread, you can pay 25 or 5 for the same product. Another issue is if you aren't an established brand it costs a lot more to make the product than an established brand.. aka Walmart/amazon and big box is cheep because they can bulk buy because they have warehouses compared to local shops.
When we talk about educated fields there is a lot more that go into it. Your line worker is menial, your scientist who creates the formulation of the materials that the lineman just monitors/pushes the button on for blank seconds or bends for blank seconds is menial. Money today is generated in the formation or creation of an operation, not in the manufacturing itself. We care about the efficiency/reduction of waste in our product, we care about the time it takes to create via our methods/formula.
When you are at the store you don't give a fuck if the deodorant is mint from dial or mint from Gillette, sometimes brand awareness helps that via ads. Why do people prefer McDonald over KFC or Subway over Paneria bread. It's the formula created by the degree/uppers. Not the people on the line because the people on the line have minimal impact on the product. It's all about the formula and the system in place created by the architects and the engineers/chemical people. Sure you can fuck up the production line via raising temps and neglecting it outright, but it's easy to replace people on a line via moving operations if you can't find enough.
My issue is America is no longer a country of production, but of formulas. The medical field in a whole is a formula from root canals to heart surgery, and nursing. Law is the same, tech is the same, and so are many other fields including even the basics of construction. America in the future will be predominantly trade (formula based trades people who are doing new things) and Intelligent work. We won't have people following a step by step process in the "creation" aka line workers: the reason is because they can't afford a good lifestyle or the ability to do it.
So this is where it gets really weird and I've had friends in other industries push for this and I think it's unethical. We want to make simpler systems to pay the "lower denominator" is the word they use (individuals with disabilities/heavy mental (disabilities). To do the work because it would allow individuals who aren't currently in the workforce to participate and earn some extra money even though that money wouldn't be good enough for a person not living on disability.
So I mean that's a good way to bring manufacturing back which is simplify it even more so the "lower demonstrator" as they call it can work and fill those jobs for that low pricing because a normal person won't fill it. The future of money as an employee is in creating formulas, not being apart of the formula.
Limits: I PERSONALLY don't believe tech has a limit as we still have a lot of areas to create formulas in and provide them to companies from big topics to really small topics. The workers in the tech industry that are basically just programming the solution that others have provided to them won't be successful in the next 30 years. You have to be willing to create your own formula and you'll always be employable. The key issue is for stuff to get cheaper I believe we need to appeal to what these businesses are referring to as the "lower denominator" and implement them into the workforce with super simple work. Meanwhile we need to open the door to train the future generations to focus on creating a formula instead of being a cog in the formula. Because the cogs will always get cheaper, the groundbreaking formulas won't.
If we want manufacturing aka the cog to work again we need to offer benefits that make it so they can't refuse. This is government subsidization which would be kind of communist... The cog needs offered subsidized living such as housing credits by the workplace/government (if they are fulfilling a role that needs fulfilled for american security/manufacturing. I believe if we had either heavy tax breaks or the government offering free-healthcare or housing credits for the cog they would work. If someone knows that they are being cheated and they won't be able to survive off a wage and have no support why would they partake in that role? this would also bring the cost to "employ" down especially if we had the two sectors of public and private working together to house these workers and offer no cost medical to them.
Meanwhile the people who are making the formulas are excluded from this policy and pay themselves because the formula creators make more than enough money to sustain themselves. If we don't have a system like this America's manufacturing is gone. We need to implement the "lower denominator" into the workforce or we need to offer benefits that let the cog feel valued in terms of housing credits and medical credits.
I'm okay personally with paying 40% tax, maybe 50% if the deal for the rest of America is good. I make over 650k a year. I can live off 150k in almost any state. It doesn't hurt me to get taxed high if it means general america receives help and the cog feels valued. I could clear easily 5m a year if I didn't value my workforce and wanted to chop our housing program and our medical program thus making them lose more.
(but it makes us competitive because people have to worry about less: it's also cheaper than our employees going out and doing it themselves because we get bundled deals based on the amount of people we "register for".)
Prime example of cog getting cheeper but formula isn't:
The price of a laptop 10 years ago vs the price of a laptop now. The price of a home blender now vs in the past. The price of a nuclear reactor in the past compared to now, the price of renting a server now vs in the past (which is very very cheep), the price of a camera now compared to in the past. The price of a phone now vs in the past (and the modules such as camera, touch screen, and such that are now included with them).
The devices to produce a product are cheeper and simpler, the formula or underlying concept of the formula is still the same price
Think of facebook...facebook is just a computer program a formula, yet it's worth a lot more now than before...yet the servers it operates on are cheeper. Same thing for the NSA datacenters... they are cheeper to operate on now, but the forumals to compute are expensive to purchase/have consulting on.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2024
In my opinion, there's currently a split in the GOP. Marco Rubio is the leader. I know this because of the off-camera meetings between Canadian representatives and American representatives without Trump present.
Scenario: Hey! Donald, you abandon your threats of annexing Canada and Greenland. For Panama, we're going to make them a very generous offer. As for tariffs, we'll see! Otherwise, Donald, you'll be impeached!
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