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PRC-ROC-US | 2025

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7gtz said:
A side effect of the U.S.'s perceived isolationism (not debating whether it is true in principle) is inevitably nuclear proliferation.
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That might be true, it could also be argued Russias invasion and Chinas bellicose attitude in SCS and Taiwan could just as easily be argued for the blame of nuclear proliferation.

What do you do? The world pivoted at the end of the Cold War and the west adjusted its posture to Pax American type system. We made some blunders, and other nations also had a vote.

The issue is Russia and China turned a blind eye and facilitated DPRK’s weapons program. We were blind as well to Pakistans program.
I guess my point is the cat is out of the bag.
Now we have China wagging DPRK and Pakistans tail. Both of which are nuclear powers. Is it realistic to fret and have no rational approach proliferation or do nothing. Or help our own allies who have a necessary threat (ROK-Japan-Poland) developed their own programs if they are so inclined. It’s a mess, doing nothing is not a solution.
Our expanding cooperation with India is a perfect example I believe of developing a good relationship with a rational ally. Just as we should do with ROK and Japan.
 
OReid said:
That might be true, it could also be argued Russias invasion and Chinas bellicose attitude in SCS and Taiwan could just as easily be argued for the blame of nuclear proliferation.

What do you do? The world pivoted at the end of the Cold War and the west adjusted its posture to Pax American type system. We made some blunders, and other nations also had a vote.

The issue is Russia and China turned a blind eye and facilitated DPRK’s weapons program. We were blind as well to Pakistans program.
I guess my point is the cat is out of the bag.
Now we have China wagging DPRK and Pakistans tail. Both of which are nuclear powers. Is it realistic to fret and have no rational approach proliferation or do nothing. Or help our own allies who have a necessary threat (ROK-Japan-Poland) developed their own programs if they are so inclined. It’s a mess, doing nothing is not a solution.
Our expanding cooperation with India is a perfect example I believe of developing a good relationship with a rational ally. Just as we should do with ROK and Japan.
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Countries will naturally do what they need to defend themselves. Russia and China are to be blamed for this increased proliferation obviously, without their threat, I doubt these countries would even think of nuclearising.
I just think having a perceived (again, perception is more important than reality here) iron-clad nuclear umbrella over these countries could still limit proliferation. Most of the blame does ultimately rest with Russia & China.
 
Seeing Abrams in Taiwan is like seeing someone pick up and shoot an AR for the first time, worried that they will not use it correctly but recognizing that if used correctly it is an efficient machine of destruction that is able to be used to good effect with plenty of practice, even for a novice tank crew.
 
I do question whether they will end up receiving the full amount. 108 M1A2's is a pretty hefty bit of tank..
 
7gtz said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1929964921330032912
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Not factually correct, military equipment and weapons began flowing to Ukraine in 2017.
www.atlanticcouncil.org

Lethal Weapons to Ukraine: A Primer

On December 22, 2017, the Trump administration approved supplying Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine, capping a nearly three-year debate in Washington over whether the United States should provide lethal defensive weapons to counter further Russian aggression in Europe. A few days prior the...
www.atlanticcouncil.org www.atlanticcouncil.org
Note Atlantic Council is not a huge fan of Trump but it’s a honest report on their part.

We’ve been selling weapons to Taiwan for years as well as training.

It is of note this is a change in category of weapons being sent provided to Taiwan. Armored equipment provided to aid in actually repelling any attempted land invasion by china
 
OReid said:
Not factually correct, military equipment and weapons began flowing to Ukraine in 2017.
www.atlanticcouncil.org

Lethal Weapons to Ukraine: A Primer

On December 22, 2017, the Trump administration approved supplying Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine, capping a nearly three-year debate in Washington over whether the United States should provide lethal defensive weapons to counter further Russian aggression in Europe. A few days prior the...
www.atlanticcouncil.org www.atlanticcouncil.org
Note Atlantic Council is not a huge fan of Trump but it’s a honest report on their part.

We’ve been selling weapons to Taiwan for years as well as training.

It is of note this is a change in category of weapons being sent provided to Taiwan. Armored equipment provided to aid in actually repelling any attempted land invasion by china
Click to expand...
Possible. As you said, the last point is what is notable - tanks are a substantial step forward for aid.
 
Of note these are not old M1 variants either. Improved optics open digital architecture.

M1A2 Sep V2

M1A2 SEP V2 main battle tank Description Technical Data Specifi
armyrecognition.com armyrecognition.com
Taiwan is not getting leftovers here.
The deliveries are scheduled over a couple of years.
 
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