• Guests may view all public nodes. However, you must be registered to post.

UA-RU | DISCUSSIONS

Status
Not open for further replies.
bartok said:
So, my question is: do you want to stay here you, obreid and someone else, giving reason between you telling yourself how much Russia is bad?
Click to expand...
Your free to include me. However try to be accurate. I do not think “Russia” is any more bad than any other nation. Their worse than some and better than most I think. I do however believe Russia through its leaders have done a stupid thing invading Ukraine.

They invaded a sovereign nation where results indicate the population has been more than willing to resist and fight back and support their governments effort to wage this fight.
If the Ukrainian population opinion changes in a major way I will still support their decision.

I am quite fine with Russia running their internal affairs and elect the leaders they wish and pursue the economic policies they choose. Do not class me as one who will defend America’s actions and policies as always universally superior or right. Like most nations administered by men we have made some terrible policy decisions and actions. I will be first in line to criticize them if I think their wrong.

I supported Russia when they defended their long term interest and ally in Syria.
Yes Ukraine has been in the influence of Russia historically for a long time. Much of that by force, sometimes brutally.

So my objections are not against Russia or its people as a nation or their right to their own internal direction. But Ukrainians have proven repeatedly, in a majority they do not want to remain in Russia’s sphere of influence and that they wish to be allied with the west or at the least truly independent.

Russia has argued that ethnic Russia’s are persecuted and fascist this or terrorist that. But I have yet to see them prove Ukraine as a government or people are any worse than Russians or Poles or anyother Slavic nation.

So consequently yes I will resist and speak harshly against Russia’s actions in Ukraine.
I haven’t pretended that this is a foregone situation where Russia will fail. But have maintained what the west needs to do to prevail and that Ukraine should prevail.

I have never believed sanctions will prevail alone. And knew that they would cost us all for “a time”.
I am spending double for fuel right now. But I also don’t just blame that on Russian oil sanctions, which have mostly been ineffective in hurting Putin directly or actually reduced the overall amount of Russian oil export.

I blame that along with the self-inflicted wound of bad COVID policy and stupid individual national energy policies.

I try to take care when making a statement noting if it is an opinion or personal conclusion vs. presenting something and claiming it is a fact and that to argue it is foolish. While rarely providing a source for it.

Making a argument or proposition with out presenting supporting facts and documentation and claiming them as facts are the actions and tactics of TV news panels and political shills
 
Yingyang said:
Now Putin has duma support and weapons factories are in full swing, Ukraine may have a bigger challenge on its hands. Especially if boots are increased for a Europe - Ukraine border block. Unless someone else fires up weapons factories to match . 🤔
Click to expand...
That's my concern, NATO allies have been funneling weapons into Ukraine, which is all well and good. But they've only given what already exists.

In the UK at least, we now have virtually nothing in reserves and there's no effort yet to replace it, makes me wonder how long it can be kept up.
 
Does anyone believe the massive spikes in price of electricity in Germany may be exacerbated by the sanctions? I had not seen how much the prices spiked up in March 2022 (and then fell), but seem to be on spikes. I believe these is green energy related, but this is a massive change, from say a year ago.
www.statista.com

Electricity price Germany 2022 | Statista

In March 2022, the average wholesale electricity price in Germany surpassed 251 euros per megawatt-hour, more than five times the price recorded a year earlier.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
Germany-Electricity.jpg
 
Train said:
That's my concern, NATO allies have been funneling weapons into Ukraine, which is all well and good. But they've only given what already exists.

In the UK at least, we now have virtually nothing in reserves and there's no effort yet to replace it, makes me wonder how long it can be kept up.
Click to expand...

The U.S. and the Western leadership are skating on thin ice; they (understandably) hope Russia's invasion will implode like the USSR imploded in 1991. But we also live in a different era; this is not the 1990s. The U.S. and Western capitalist system leadership overestimates current public support, especially with the simultaneous growth of societal division, and trust erosion in western institutions, government agencies, law enforcement, intelligence, public health agencies, etc. There is a lot of their society that want to turn the stick of authorities and capitalist leadership back on them. We would have to be blind and deaf not to realize this.

The U.S. and the NATO countries have a lot of problems and issues within their own borders. In U.S., a nation that shrugs as 1 million die from COVID-19, is not a cohesive society. The out-of-control gun violence, the extreme divisions over rights issues which many view as foundational for their society, etc., continue to exacerbate friction among Americans. As we have seen the monofocus only on Islamist extremist terrorism (and not also on other social issues), left U.S. in a difficult national security position to deal with other extremism. As we see in all of history, extremists who act are always a small minority. But that does not mean there is not a larger, growing "mumbling group" of extremist anger out there, waiting for a spark.

Smart national leadership in any nation leads with empathy and mercy, and tries to bring the disaffected of their nation back from the brink. Warmonging is never going to work with the level of divisions within Western nations today. There were internal national divisions in 1945 too; but the internal solidarity was greater than the internal divisions in the Allied nations. It is one thing for leaders to pose for G7 photos and claim solidarity against the Russian invasion of Ukraine; it is quite another to retain public trust within their own nation. Just on June 26, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson was mocking the dictator Putin at G7; now he has resigned over loss of public trust. Just three months ago, POTUS Biden was calling for dictator Putin's removal; Biden's current approval rating (per CNN) is at 36 percent; 88 percent of U.S. views U.S. is going in the wrong direction. France President Macron lost a majority in the National Assembly and faced a serious challenge from both the far-right and the far-left. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s has had a recent approval rating of just 30 per cent.

So unfortunately, the Russian dictator Putin had recognized a window of opportunity to seize in the immoral invasion of Ukraine. But Western nations and institutions allowing their own leadership and their nations to become weaker and trust in them to degrade is not a "sacrifice" against Putin. Instead, it actually further empowers the Russian dictator.
 
The problem is that Ukraine has limited resources itself. The West could flood Ukraine with weapons, but Ukraine has only so many hands to hold them.

Sure, Ukraine may also be facing the too-little-too-late scenario when it comes to weapons. idk. They could still rally with enough good weapons and push back the invasion.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
The problem is that Ukraine has limited resources itself. The West could flood Ukraine with weapons, but Ukraine has only so many hands to hold them.

Sure, Ukraine may also be facing the too-little-too-late scenario when it comes to weapons. idk. They could still rally with enough good weapons and push back the invasion.
Click to expand...
Has Ukraine begun conscription or is it still regulars? I forget
 
alphaecho said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1545024641319804928
Click to expand...
This is a big problem in my opinion. I believe Ukraine will (rightly) hammer that base. Hopefully MLRS battery fire. The problem is it’s in Belarus and they want to give a base to the Russians 20 miles from the Ukraine border, but they don’t want to get pulled into the war. In my opinion this makes Belarus legally a belligerent.
 
Update on USA defense measures from Air Force Times: "Rocket carrying new nuclear missile component explodes in late-night test" - "A military rocket exploded Wednesday during the first test launch of a key component of America’s future land-based nuclear missiles. The rocket, known as the Minotaur II+, blew up about 10 seconds after launching from Vandenberg Space Force Base, California, around 11 p.m. local time."... "The Minotaur II+ combines parts of decommissioned Minuteman intercontinental ballistic missiles and an upper segment of the current Minuteman III nuke to create a missile used for suborbital test launches. Vandenberg routinely holds live tests of unarmed missile bodies — without a nuclear warhead inside — to check how the aging ICBMs are faring and to vet new technology. In this case, the Air Force Nuclear Weapons Center said the practice missile was carrying a Mark 21A reentry vehicle, or the part of a nuclear weapon that would hold a real warhead."

www.airforcetimes.com

Rocket carrying new nuclear missile component explodes in late-night test

Officials are investigating the cause of the mishap, which did not injure anyone.
www.airforcetimes.com www.airforcetimes.com
 
Torcher said:
This is a big problem in my opinion. I believe Ukraine will (rightly) hammer that base. Hopefully MLRS battery fire. The problem is it’s in Belarus and they want to give a base to the Russians 20 miles from the Ukraine border, but they don’t want to get pulled into the war. In my opinion this makes Belarus legally a belligerent.
Click to expand...
They are already in the war. This invasion wouldn’t have happened without their support from the beginning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Torch
DEFCON Warning System said:
The problem is that Ukraine has limited resources itself. The West could flood Ukraine with weapons, but Ukraine has only so many hands to hold them.

Sure, Ukraine may also be facing the too-little-too-late scenario when it comes to weapons. idk. They could still rally with enough good weapons and push back the invasion.
Click to expand...
It’s not a matter of if but when Ukraine pushes their counter offensive IMO.
 
Torcher said:
This is a big problem in my opinion. I believe Ukraine will (rightly) hammer that base. Hopefully MLRS battery fire. The problem is it’s in Belarus and they want to give a base to the Russians 20 miles from the Ukraine border, but they don’t want to get pulled into the war. In my opinion this makes Belarus legally a belligerent.
Click to expand...
To those who would (understandably) then argue Belarus is now a target in an expanding Russian-Ukraine-Europe-NATO war, consider this. All of the NATO nations have also been providing or transporting weapon systems into Ukraine. To those understandably cheering USA providing the HIMARS to Ukraine, remember this also makes the USA situation more embedded into the war. So every argument that those of us opposing the Russian invasion could make about countries supporting Russia's activities, could also be turned around and made about countries supporting Ukraine's defense. Fair or not. People who are more than simply interested in warmonging, need to consider the consequences of each escalation. A Ukraine attack on Belarus would further escalate the NATO/European war involvement.
www.defensenews.com

US to send more HIMARS precision rockets to Ukraine

“If the Russians think they can outlast the Ukrainians, they need to rethink that," a senior defense official said Friday.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
 
REALHumanRights said:
To those who would (understandably) then argue Belarus is now a target in an expanding Russian-Ukraine-Europe-NATO war, consider this. All of the NATO nations have also been providing or transporting weapon systems into Ukraine. To those understandably cheering USA providing the HIMARS to Ukraine, remember this also makes the USA situation more embedded into the war. So every argument that those of us opposing the Russian invasion could make about countries supporting Russia's activities, could also be turned around and made about countries supporting Ukraine's defense. Fair or not. People who are more than simply interested in warmonging, need to consider the consequences of each escalation. A Ukraine attack on Belarus would further escalate the NATO/European war involvement.
www.defensenews.com

US to send more HIMARS precision rockets to Ukraine

“If the Russians think they can outlast the Ukrainians, they need to rethink that," a senior defense official said Friday.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
Click to expand...
No missile strikes or strike aircraft have been launched at Russian targets By the Ukraine or anyone else from OUTSIDE the Ukraine.
Providing supplies (including armaments) walks up to but does not cross the line if non-belligerent to belligerent. Hosting invasion forces allowing them to attack from your country along with airstrikes and missile strikes from your country usually makes you a belligerent And certainly makes you a target.
 
REALHumanRights said:
To those who would (understandably) then argue Belarus is now a target in an expanding Russian-Ukraine-Europe-NATO war, consider this. All of the NATO nations have also been providing or transporting weapon systems into Ukraine. To those understandably cheering USA providing the HIMARS to Ukraine, remember this also makes the USA situation more embedded into the war. So every argument that those of us opposing the Russian invasion could make about countries supporting Russia's activities, could also be turned around and made about countries supporting Ukraine's defense. Fair or not. People who are more than simply interested in warmonging, need to consider the consequences of each escalation. A Ukraine attack on Belarus would further escalate the NATO/European war involvement.
www.defensenews.com

US to send more HIMARS precision rockets to Ukraine

“If the Russians think they can outlast the Ukrainians, they need to rethink that," a senior defense official said Friday.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
Click to expand...
Well of course this is a given.
There are three ways this actually de-escalates.
1 Russia stands down or Putin’s gov falls.
2 Ukraine stands down of Kiev’s gov falls
3 a combination of both of the above.

nato withdrawing support now does not guarantee any quick resolution.
If Russia escalates attacks out of Belarus then those facilities will eventually become legitimate targets.
To argue otherwise is naive.

So the question remains for the west how to end this as quickly as possible or properly prepare and plan for a protracted conflict.
Both of these objectives are easily doable by the west. But it will take an educated public to execute it.

Of course it also all hinges on Ukraine’s resolve.

The greatest argument I have for engaging nato forces in the conflict is that even if Russia advances are brought to a standstill or driven back to the Russian boarder nothing will stand in Russia’s way from continuing a
The air and missile war against Ukraine.
So it will in the end require a sustained and overwhelming air defense and interdiction program to halt any Russian air attacks.

We will like it or not in the end have to step up with kinetic action to stop this.
Most will scream we can’t do this it’s never happened before but that would be incorrect. The Russians did it both in Korea and Vietnam.
So this is not some rubric we can’t cross. It’s been done before by both nations directly against each other.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Torch
Obviously, Russia is the primary aggressor here but I want to see what people think of this:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...id=EMMX&cvid=b4ac643a410148d9ac57477e1046ddc9 (mediabias)
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/ukraine-shares-blame-nursing-home-attack/ (mediabias)
Original UN report: https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default.../2022-06-29/2022-06-UkraineArmedAttack-EN.pdf

I'm seeing many people defend Ukraine here because "russia bad", but, personally, I think calling them out hopefully will make them not do that shit in the future. Its a legit millitary target if they enter it. They had days to evacuate it.
Also, the original source states both sides have been treating prisoners poorly, violating IHL, using cluster bombs, civillian shields,
Obligatory; Russia bad Ukraine good, invaders are the evil, Ukraine victim. I dont disagree with that. And mostly the report proves russia is doing the worse.

So far not many sources are reporting on it. I think they should. I think Ukraine needs to answer for this. I reccomend reading the original UN Report as it sheds fairly unbias light on the whole situation. It is fairly propaganda free and its the first time in a while I feel like is pretty honest. Its also pretty grim.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom