No. It takes us not dragging our feet and not only sending a trickle or little bits here and there. We need to give them everything and things they truly need in the numbers that will actually help Ukraine end this and quick.
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UA-RU-NATO | DISCUSSIONS
- Thread starter Totality 🇺🇦 🇮🇱
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Disagree, providing equipment takes too long because you have to train Ukrainian soldiers.
Come on Americans, come face Russia direct, you cowardly band
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- Jan 27, 2018
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In Bachmut, fights for "dominoes" are underway, ie 1 of the last 2 fortified quarters of compact development in which Ukrainians defend themselves. The city is 95% captured by RUS. This is the bloodiest battle for both sides in this war and a real "meat grinder" i.e. material war (I don't like this term BTW). The proper assessment of who won it will be provided only by the analysis of equipment and personal losses. At the operational level, Bakhmut appears as an undisputed defeat for the RUS, despite the tactical "success" in the form of capturing the city.
There are many indications that UA's wing strikes are actually preparing a safe retreat if necessary. We'll see what happens over the next week.
There are many indications that UA's wing strikes are actually preparing a safe retreat if necessary. We'll see what happens over the next week.
Lol they already trained on all the systems I'm suggesting sending in great numbers to end this tuly & to let Ukraine end this on their terms.
Not just a trickle, but in numbers, enough to give Ukraine to end this not prolong it.
So consider your statement null and void to my suggestion as sending more in the numbers Ukraine actually needs to end this war will require no further training except for the F-16's of course.
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- Jan 27, 2018
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Prigozhin hastily declares "mission accomplished" and pulls remaining wagnerites out before flanks collapse?
Without those troops his power play has no muscle.
Without those troops his power play has no muscle.
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It’s not just the mechanics of flight operations and combat though.
It will be learning air and ground integration. They don’t just want snoopy up their flying around looking for the RedBarron.
Learning to integrate and communicate with radar platforms.
All that will be as important as getting on and off the ground.
It might. That’s up to the Ukraines. At the moment their opening position is all Russian in Ukraine must leave or die. Makes negotiating difficult.
Can't Blame Them After:
- Putin has kidnapped hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children from their families to be set up in re-education camps to erase their very identity and attempting to erase Ukrainians very identity in illegal Russian occupied towns in Ukraine by ruthlessly targeting in a very genocidal manner the local populations.
- Millions of civilians Putin has purposely targeted like playgrounds, schools, hospitals, power plants, other civilian infrastructure, and apartments at night while Ukrainians are are sleeping in their beds in their houses.
- The countless war crimes committed by Putins goons that brutally torcher, slaughter, rape, and pillage like animal's the Ukrainian populations within illegally Russian occupied Ukraine territory.
I could go on and on.
No one will ever forget what side people where on when this is over and better think long & hard how officials or nations are going to explain it particularly nations who did nothing. Especially when more gruesome, horrid, disgusting, atrocities committed by the Russians come out from former controlled territories that become liberated.
These are not nuggets, these are survivors, full Aviators that have managed to survive the crucible. These are genius and near genius officers. 8 weeks is way more time then they need. Not how much they want, not how much they SHOULD have, but enough. I doubt they get back to the Ukraine and all other pilots and Mig’s are out flying in a Battle for Britain moment. They will have plenty of time to assimilate.
I agree with you about time, I believe the Defense department is ballparking double that with 8 weeks to 4 months. I was stating my minimal training to be slightly more dangerous to the Russians then Ukrainians.
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Russias negotiating position isn't much better.
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We should be careful especially with our own country men to not vilify them as this or that apologist. Putin lover or what ever.
Absolutely some are spreading that notion. But by in large those who object to continued support of Ukraine are doing so because they simply object to the US being so involved financially and risk wise in situations they don’t believe we should be.
Their not traitors or colluding with Russia. They simply disagree with the policy choice of being so involved in foreign conflicts.
We’ve just came out of twenty years of war with not exactly the most optimal results from that cost.
So it’s a legitimate question to raise.
I was adamantly opposed to our actions in Libya and subsequently in Syria. That didn’t make we a traitor or foreign stooge. It just meant I disagreed.
Totaly agree with you. I was talking about the nation's that stand by and do nothing or say nothing.
Was not talking about people specifically more of governments or officials rather than your average Joe.
But I suppose my comment could be taken that way and it probably can be used that way. My comment was not intended to target individuals or your averge joe who has no say in this.
Yes. Ukraine is being used by both DEM & GOP as a divisive tool for their more extreme base aka the liberals and conservatives. Vilifying ordinary people who do not support or support Ukraine.
But luckily everyone in the middle who is not on the far left and far right spectrum which makes the majority of Americans still have a pretty strong bipartisan support for Ukraine.
Democracies require at least one good man to stand to and be heard to effect any outcome.
(Completely position neutral statement)
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I’m sorry I cannot figure out where Prigozhin is coming from or going.
It’s disaster one day victory mission accomplished the next.
Wagner Group chief says Bakhmut captured; Ukraine rejects claims
Wagner Group chief says Bakhmut captured; Ukraine rejects claims - UPI.com
The leader of the Russian private military Wagner Group said Saturday his troops have captured the key eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut, but Kyiv rejected the claims, saying the fight goes on.www.upi.com
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I wonder if bakhmuts fall was planned for this day, to get more support from G7?
I kinda thought the same thing given that the entire cities is a massive brick pile. But then I came to the conclusion that the flanking attacks were more like spoiling attacks, from the flanks, to allow the central UA troops to withdraw.
UA’s opinion is the Russians didn’t capture anything as there was literally nothing left. (Multiple drone camera flight confirmed this).
I think at some recent point the Ukrainian Command decided there was nothing left to fight over and the mission to bleed the heck out of Russia had been accomplished. Even if I was Russian I would realise that there was no victory here. Objectives meet and land seized, but no city, nothing but liabilities (cholera comes to mind) in exchange for 20,000 Russian Army casualties and 10,000 Wagner casualties.
Mission Accomplished (both sides)
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And the war goes on. 
what will it take for Ukraine. Kyiv . Another few million to leave Ukraine. If only the west would have allowed a peace deal earlier and kept their nose out of it, millions wouldn't have fled and atleast a million combined from both sides may still be alive. But hey Russia can't do this without loss as much as Ukraine has lost more.
Interesting to see how this ends . Atleast while Russia is winning we live longer. Ukraine should 
and deal. They have lost enough you would think. Than again like Russia they may choose to fight until last man stands. Their choice as long as it is truly theirs.
what will it take for Ukraine. Kyiv . Another few million to leave Ukraine. If only the west would have allowed a peace deal earlier and kept their nose out of it, millions wouldn't have fled and atleast a million combined from both sides may still be alive. But hey Russia can't do this without loss as much as Ukraine has lost more.Interesting to see how this ends . Atleast while Russia is winning we live longer. Ukraine
should and deal. They have lost enough you would think. Than again like Russia they may choose to fight until last man stands. Their choice as long as it is truly theirs.
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I always find it intriguing that you seem so willing to let Russia completely off the hook for invading and destroying so much in Ukraine.And the war goes on.
Interesting to see how this ends . Atleast while Russia is winning we live longer. Ukraine
And with a slight of hand lay the death and destruction in Ukraine somehow at the feet of Ukraine.
Like somehow with out thought or concern surrendering is such a normal and logical choice to make.
Why should Russia not be the one surrendering.
Simply because their willing to keep sending people to die and level cities and kill Ukrainians.
Is it actually a deeply held belief that all war is bad and that no nation should ever defend itself.
Was it wrong for the European nations and Russia to resist Germany in WW2? Or should they just have submitted and saved themselves the war deaths.
There are things worse that war sometimes. Historically Ukrainians and many other Eastern European countries know this to be true.
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