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UA-RU-NATO War | Discussions | Jun. 1st/Sep. 13th 2025

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Yingyang said:
At this stage reasonable apparently. Nato alliance has supported Ukraine from the start.
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The weapons they’ve sent Ukraine are nowhere near the capability Russia would be facing in a conflict against NATO. Look what migs and F-16s are doing against SU-57s what do you think an F-22 that they wouldn’t even be able to know is there would do?
 
Snowfall said:
The weapons they’ve sent Ukraine are nowhere near the capability Russia would be facing in a conflict against NATO. Look what migs and F-16s are doing against SU-57s what do you think an F-22 that they wouldn’t even be able to know is there would do?
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F-22 pilots are who exactly?
This discussion is pointless really , considering you probably believe everything reported about Ukrainian military successes and non of Russian claims. Personally I look at both sides evenly , without bias and formulate my own opinions from both sides propaganda and reports.
 
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Yingyang said:
F-22 pilots are who exactly?
This discussion is pointless really , considering you probably believe everything reported about Ukrainian military successes and non of Russian claims. Personally I look at both sides evenly , without bias and formulate my own opinions from both sides propaganda and reports.
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The F-22 is the most advanced air to air fighter platform on earth, it’s the only fighter aircraft the U.S. has ever refused to export because they’re so afraid of it being in anyone else’s hands. I mean I can look at a map and see what both sides of done. The Russians have taken limited amounts of territory beyond the original invasion, taken massive losses to a country with an unorganized military, and have proven to have an abysmal record of intelligence failures and weapons failures. They stand no chance against the large military force in the world when they have made minimal gains against their outdated technology.
 
Snowfall said:
The weapons they’ve sent Ukraine are nowhere near the capability Russia would be facing in a conflict against NATO. Look what migs and F-16s are doing against SU-57s what do you think an F-22 that they wouldn’t even be able to know is there would do?
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I don't believe for a second Russia is interested in a conflict with nato unless provoked. Nato isn't interested in a war with Russia either to be honest. Unfortunately many here start ridiculous conversations or show bs claims from dickheads like starma and eu leaders mouthing of about bs claims regarding Russia and Putin plans without ever meeting him or studying him and Russia . All this is truly created to keep interest ,fear and support to maintain using Ukraine as target of destruction while trying to destroy Russia in many ways. Many of which haven't had the effect expected.
 
Snowfall said:
The F-22 is the most advanced air to air fighter platform on earth, it’s the only fighter aircraft the U.S. has ever refused to export because they’re so afraid of it being in anyone else’s hands. I mean I can look at a map and see what both sides of done. The Russians have taken limited amounts of territory beyond the original invasion, taken massive losses to a country with an unorganized military, and have proven to have an abysmal record of intelligence failures and weapons failures. They stand no chance against the large military force in the world when they have made minimal gains against their outdated technology.
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Thankyou in other words no F-22 planes going to Ukraine as no pilots qualify in Ukraine.
America has had as much opportunity as has nato to intervene . Yes Ukraine isn't a nato country. Easy for west mouth of about capabilities while not acting independently or individually, directly in the conflict. In other words pointless talking about what might ,what could, etc when it isn't even happening now after the current timeline of conflict.
Distant support from West is how this conflict remains , and will remain.
 
Snowfall said:
The F-22 is the most advanced air to air fighter platform on earth, it’s the only fighter aircraft the U.S. has ever refused to export because they’re so afraid of it being in anyone else’s hands. I mean I can look at a map and see what both sides of done. The Russians have taken limited amounts of territory beyond the original invasion, taken massive losses to a country with an unorganized military, and have proven to have an abysmal record of intelligence failures and weapons failures. They stand no chance against the large military force in the world when they have made minimal gains against their outdated technology.
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Yet they still fight. And always will. By your summary of Russia I'm surprised your not, that Russia continues to fight .
Russia continues to refuse negotiations on their expectations of a peace deal let alone the opportunity for an easier way out of a conflict they are apparently losing in your and so many others opinions. A conflict that is apparently destroying Russia, Russian economy, Russian military, Russian hegemony, Russian etc etc etc.
 
Yingyang said:
Yet they still fight. And always will. By your summary of Russia I'm surprised your not, that Russia continues to fight .
Russia continues to refuse negotiations on their expectations of a peace deal let alone the opportunity for an easier way out of a conflict they are apparently losing in your and so many others opinions. A conflict that is apparently destroying Russia, Russian economy, Russian military, Russian hegemony, Russian etc etc etc.
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I don’t think Russia is losing but I don’t think Russia is winning either. Same thing with Ukraine they’re not winning but they’re not losing either. All war is explained by bargaining friction and the fact of the matter is that right now both sides think they can gain more by fighting than they can by settling. It doesn’t mean it’s not doing immense damage to both countries it just means they’d rather keep fighting.
 
Yingyang said:
I don't believe for a second Russia is interested in a conflict with nato unless provoked. Nato isn't interested in a war with Russia either to be honest. Unfortunately many here start ridiculous conversations or show bs claims from dickheads like starma and eu leaders mouthing of about bs claims regarding Russia and Putin plans without ever meeting him or studying him and Russia . All this is truly created to keep interest ,fear and support to maintain using Ukraine as target of destruction while trying to destroy Russia in many ways. Many of which haven't had the effect expected.
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Just a thought. If the idea with North Korea's help is to create pressure or some minor incident with the Baltic countries that is striking enough to unnerve NATO countries, and thus force them to divert resources intended for Ukraine to NATO's own security. ???
 
alphaecho said:
Just a thought. If the idea with North Korea's help is to create pressure or some minor incident with the Baltic countries that is striking enough to unnerve NATO countries, and thus force them to divert resources intended for Ukraine to NATO's own security. ???
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Incident can also be more hybrid than directly military, but the troops there might still be involved somehow.
 
alphaecho said:
Just a thought. If the idea with North Korea's help is to create pressure or some minor incident with the Baltic countries that is striking enough to unnerve NATO countries, and thus force them to divert resources intended for Ukraine to NATO's own security. ???
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Doubt it. Russia is no threat to nato. As I've outlined recently. Reasons for bs is to keep fear,support etc for Ukraine to remain the destruction site for the western attempts against Russia. Simply keep telling the population in Europe Russia will attack them if Ukraine is unsuccessful to keep fear and support based on obvious lies, Putin isn't interested in conflict with nato anymore than nato is interested in conflict with Russia. The west is well aware of the outcome should they directly attack Russia individually or as a United effort.
Hence America and eu - nato support and supplies from a safe distance.
 
alphaecho said:
Just a thought. If the idea with North Korea's help is to create pressure or some minor incident with the Baltic countries that is striking enough to unnerve NATO countries, and thus force them to divert resources intended for Ukraine to NATO's own security. ???
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I think NATO is already unnerved by the war in Ukraine and Russia, and if what they say is to be believed several of them think helping Ukraine is the easiest way to prevent Russia from doing that. So if Russia used North Korea to do something irrational then I wouldn’t be surprised to see the west intervene in a way we haven’t seen yet. If they did an incursion like that it would likely only require minor amounts of resources to hold back since the Russians would want plausible deniability so I’m sure they could handle both situations in the event it happened. A somewhat unrelated thing to this situation is that Ukraine is still going to have to be something Russia thinks about if it ever decides to do something to NATO. It’s not going to be able to just up and leave when the war is over and will likely need 100-150,000 troops to patrol the DMZ, assuming the war ends in that fashion which appears the likeliest, otherwise in the event they make a move on NATO and pull equipment out of Ukraine to do so I would put money down Ukraine makes a move to get some more territory back.
 

As Ukraine batters Russia with daring assaults, firebrand pro-Kremlin pundits rattle nuclear sabers​

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***EXCERPT***
But fury is being openly vented across the Russia media, with pro-Kremlin pundits and bloggers seething with calls for retribution, even nuclear retaliation.

“This is not just a pretext but a reason to launch nuclear strikes on Ukraine,” the prominent “Two Majors” bloggers said on their popular Telegram channel, which has over a million subscribers.

“After the mushroom cloud you can think about who lied, made mistakes and so on,” they added, referring to the inevitable Kremlin search for scapegoats for the fiasco.
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Personally, I consider this a very thought provoking article.
 
Cilvilt_beredskap said:
Incident can also be more hybrid than directly military, but the troops there might still be involved somehow.
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It’s hard to tell, could be blustering in the foreign press, calming and distraction at home. Could be attempt to encourage ethnic Russian activities in the Baltics.

Of note the original author of this report in the Jamestown…., is a gentleman working at a Ukrainian think tank I believe.
That’s not a disqualification but it might influence some of the implications it suggests.
 
7gtz said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1930213363608338930
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While Ukraines Drone attack was tactically successful. I am beginning to wonder if it was strategically successful.
If Ukraine had been asked by the White House to tone it down a little longer.
And yet continued with this operation anyway. Then they FU.
You can argue Ukraine is an independent nation and can do as they wish. That’s true, but it’s also true if you engage in military operations against the request of one of your larger military supporters. Then you will suffer the consequences of said actions alone.

I don’t know if the WH had made any request of Ukraine along these lines. It’s beginning to look as if the WH did. If they did and Ukraine ignored them.
Then Ukraine is acting against the national interest of the United States.
 
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OReid said:
While Ukraines Drone attack was tactically successful. I am beginning to wonder if it was strategically successful.
If Ukraine had been asked by the White House to tone it down a little longer.
And yet continued with this operation anyway. Then they FU.
You can argue Ukraine is an independent nation and can do as they wish. That’s true, but it’s also true if you engage in military operations against the request of one of your larger military supporters. Then you will suffer the consequences of said actions alone.

I don’t know if the WH had made any request of Ukraine along these lines. It’s beginning to look as if the WH did. If they did and Ukraine ignored them.
Then Ukraine is acting against the national interest of the United States.
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Why should Ukraine, a country that has been invaded, act 'in the interests of the United States'? The arrogance is palpable.
 
Onoya said:
I agree with Gaijin. That's not because Ukraine didn't follow an US request that it's acting against its interest^^
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Putin told Trump that he will have to respond to the attack.

So this really begs the question… why would Ukraine target the strategic nuclear fleet? It doesn’t really act in the interest of Ukraine, because Putin can still destroy the planet 100 times over, so realistically…. Who benefits from a weakened Russian strategic fleet?

NATO. That’s who. Using Ukraine as a proxy means that the U.S. has full on plausible deniability. It’s starting to seem that this Ukrainian strike wasn’t so random after all.
 
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