UA-RU-NATO War | Discussions | Jun. 1st/Sep. 13th 2025

[Publius]

^THIS^
That is *exactly* what that terminology is supposed to convey.

So is it a change in tenor from Russia, or simply a restating of what they have said since before the war.

Personally I believe that the longer the war continues the more factually accurate it is vs strategic bluster. I say that because the longer it continues the greater the damage and weakening of Russia, and or Putin’s. Unless there is a clear victory for Putin he might be mortally wounded. This I cannot know though.
It’s reasonable without some clear victory that Putin can point to. His position afterwards, one would think would be weaker.

It also raises the existential threat issue for the West. Would a Russian victory be an existential threat to any nato member. I don’t see it because NATO states have the time and more resources to arm sufficiently to deter any future Russian hostilities.
Of course that assumes they do continue to rearm.

 

[Charmender]

^THIS^
That is *exactly* what that terminology is supposed to convey.

Still this wording has always been used in the past.
Russia has always defined NATO’s expansion an existential threat.
Nothing new, I will get concerned once Russia starts defining this conflict as a war instead of the special operation crap.

 

[Publius]

Still this wording has always been used in the past.
Russia has always defined NATO’s expansion an existential threat.
Nothing new, I will get concerned once Russia starts defining this conflict as a war instead of the special operation crap.

I’m not sure but I believe “our national interest” is added or new. At least unofficially

 

[Charmender]

I’m not sure but I believe “our national interest” is added or new. At least unofficially

Well Putin has often being referring to the special operation as a matter of national interest.

 

[Publius]

Well Putin has often being referring to the special operation as a matter of national interest.

Agreed, it is certainly more inline with what’s been said in past and their policy doc. Released in 2021
Just considering the nuances. Although nothing out of Peskov’s mouth is nuanced

 

[Charmender]

Agreed, it is certainly more inline with what’s been said in past and their policy doc. Released in 2021
Just considering the nuances. Although nothing out of Peskov’s mouth is nuanced

Honestly...I only care about what Lavrov says, because what he says always tends to be somehow true, or to become reality, expressing what Putin really's gonna do and want to say.
Peskov and Zakharova are just reintepretations of what Lavrov says or indirectly leaks.
Putin takes the decisions, but Putin is the one who addresses to the public in Russia, therefore he will always bark louder than the average of his officials. Despite from the what the mainstream media or how the "west" wants to describe him, he may receive bad suggestions and indications (and he became aware of that), but that guy is far from being crazy.
Medvedev is Putin's extreme version, but his target is people who live in a parallel world, what he says never actually counts.

 

[Publius]

Honestly...I only care about what Lavrov says, because what he says always tends to be somehow true, or to become reality, expressing what Putin really's gonna do and want to say.
Peskov and Zakharova are just reintepretations of what Lavrov says or indirectly leaks.
Putin takes the decisions, but Putin is the one who addresses to the public in Russia, therefore he will always bark louder than the average of his officials. Despite from the what the mainstream media or how the "west" wants to describe him, he may receive bad suggestions and indications (and he became aware of that), but that guy is far from being crazy.
Medvedev is Putin's extreme version, but his target is people who live in a parallel world, what he says never actually counts.

All politicians are speaking to a selected audience at any given time. I agree that Lavrov generally is closest to real world. Putin is prone to go into histrionic diatribes. He’s kinda like Hitler in that way at least. He’s prone to elaborate on historic events and interpretations of them. Then uses them for justifications for his current actions.
(Kinda like myself )
It’s seems important for him to explain this. He’d lose a western audience by the end of his preamble.
But yeah Lavrov is closest to current Russian policy demands.

 

[Sentry]

While Russian officials and commentators have occasionally framed the war in existential terms since 2022, the June 2025 statements are among the most direct and official uses of the term by Kremlin spokespeople.
I couldn’t find any evidence shows earlier direct official Kremlin statements using the exact term “existential” in this context before June 2025, though similar rhetoric has been used by Russian commentators and pundits.

Okay.. I tried to find if there was any usage of this term before and no there isn’t any official usage. I triple checked this is the first usage of this term officially.

 

[Snowfall]

While Russian officials and commentators have occasionally framed the war in existential terms since 2022, the June 2025 statements are among the most direct and official uses of the term by Kremlin spokespeople.
I couldn’t find any evidence shows earlier direct official Kremlin statements using the exact term “existential” in this context before June 2025, though similar rhetoric has been used by Russian commentators and pundits.

Okay.. I tried to find if there was any usage of this term before and no there isn’t any official usage. I triple checked this is the first usage of this term officially.

from 2023, he might not have said the exact words existential but “They have one goal: to disband the former Soviet Union and its fundamental part - the Russian Federation," meaning the west goal, in his eyes, is to make Russia not exist.

Putin casts war as a battle for Russia's survival

President Vladimir Putin cast the confrontation with the West over the Ukraine war as an existential battle for the survival of Russia and the Russian people - and said he was forced to take into account NATO's nuclear capabilities.

www.reuters.com

 

[Sentry]

from 2023, he might not have said the exact words existential but “They have one goal: to disband the former Soviet Union and its fundamental part - the Russian Federation," meaning the west goal, in his eyes, is to make Russia not exist.

Putin casts war as a battle for Russia's survival

President Vladimir Putin cast the confrontation with the West over the Ukraine war as an existential battle for the survival of Russia and the Russian people - and said he was forced to take into account NATO's nuclear capabilities.

www.reuters.com

Figuratively, you're correct. Russian government rhetoric has framed this conflict to take on an existential undertone, however, there's a difference in "hinting" or "alluding" to something versus outright using such terms in official press statements, which is the distinction we're noting here.

 

[Torch]

Long suffering Russian has stuck its <insert male genitalia here> in a blender.

A relatively small country has delivered hammer blow after hammer blow to the RU along with ~990,000 casualties in three years. They (RU) stand only to lose valuable real estate, which they have stolen fair and square, offset only by meaningless gains to globally unimportant lands. Surprisingly enough the UA is fighting and not throwing herself prone for her Rus and <mostly> asiatic conquerors to ravish.

This has left the giant arthritic Bear in shock and she is still too stunned to understand the difference between her attack failing miserably and some invader besting her defenses and put Russian survival at risk.

Russia is, in short, embarrassed beyond words. You could say she is dying of embarrassment. However none of this matters. As a coping mechanism Russian has decided she is fighting against the world (for the right to rape and pillage wantonly) and is now losing ground. In her twisted Marxist derived, Stalinist hardened mind she is threatened and she is letting the world know.

Existential is not a word you ever want to hear uttered by a nuclear armed power. Russian missiles are rather advanced and their long ignored city sizzler's will still provide a refreshing fission pop.

 

[HoldFast]

I could use some education here. Its the summer, why is UKR unable to push the frontlines back to the pre-war borders?

What do they need to be able to do this?

 

[Sentry]

Existential is not a word you ever want to hear uttered by a nuclear armed power.

Not just Russia sadly, Pakistan said the same thing on the same day

 

[Sentry]

I could use some education here. Its the summer, why is UKR unable to push the frontlines back to the pre-war borders?

What do they need to be able to do this?

Manpower and drones make advances on both sides very hard. Building up logistics for a hard push is difficult. There isn't enough equipment, not enough Air Force to protect troops on the ground, manpower, and a continued threat in the North (Sumy), where the Russians are advancing.

 

[alphaecho]

Russia is at war with Britain and US is no longer a reliable ally, UK adviser says

Government defence expert Fiona Hill warns UK to respond to threats by becoming more cohesive and resilient

www.theguardian.com

 

[alphaecho]

Starlink poses a national security threat — White House staff warnStarlink, the satellite internet service owned by Elon Musk, has raised concerns within the White House over potential national security risks, according to The Washington Post.In February, members of the internal DOGE group reportedly installed a Starlink terminal without prior authorization on the roof of the Eisenhower Executive Office Building — part of the White House complex.The terminal bypassed existing monitoring systems designed to prevent data leaks and cyberattacks. As a result, White House security services were unable to track the connection, creating a potential risk of confidential data exposure or external interference.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1931380978729013294

 

[Torch]

Men

 

[Torch]

I could use some education here. It’s the summer, why is UKR unable to push the frontlines back to the pre-war borders?

What do they need to be able to do this?

1) Manpower. 2) Offensive drone defense (ie “Fighter Drones”) 3) ability to achieve localized air superiority and support ground operations.

Off those three manpower is the UA’s biggest problem. Why they only draft older soldiers (~25 AFAIK) is apparently a large portion of their problem. It’s a mystery/cultural bias.

The really big problem is the west did not support the Ukraine like it is now 3 years ago. 2 years ago counter attacks were possible however now Russian has dug in like a tick and has planned fires over obstacles lined with troops in depth back up with drone surveillance and tactical air support.

It would take a western army to push them out.

All is not lost, hope is not forlorn if you are Ukraine. 1) You just went toe to toe with a huge regional power (self claimed superpower) and pushed them out of most of your country.

The regions the hold were/are full of Russian derivative/ treasonous personnel (viewpoint dependent). There is nothing for them there.

Russia cannot continue to take a beating like last week. It has to have been the largest hit since WW2. Even worse then the Arabs back in 1967 during the Six Day War)

If the UA keeps this up they will be free or “sun independent”.

 

[Snowfall]

Off those three manpower is the UA’s biggest problem. Why they only draft older soldiers (~25 AFAIK) is apparently a large portion of their problem. It’s a mystery/cultural bias.

The biggest problem is that Ukraine doesn’t have a high birth rate and when the war ends if they lose all their 18-25 year olds that problem will get considerably worse. They also need that age range to do things like get an education.

 

[Torch]

Well said and stated. However if the lose the war it won’t matter. The USA started that way in WW2 and by 1944 we’re sucking up every one even out of college and family men. The Ukraine needs to bend with the times imo.