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UA-RU-NATO War & Ukraine Peace Talks | Discussions

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DarkNoon said:
Only two people to blame. Trump & Putin of course above all who started this unwarranted, unprovoked, pointless war of land grabs.

Russia will never feel safe until it controls all of Europe. So save me the piss poor Russian appeasement propoganda about NATO which has never forced anyone to join. 🥱
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What appeasement propaganda I still think Trump is appeasing he’s just not nearly as dumb as chamberlain.
 
Charmender said:
I have always been very critical against Zelensky's attitude, but IMHO what we've seen today was, I'd say, an orgy of madness.
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Yeah, I can say I liked how Vance talked about the propaganda bullshit they do to brainwash people. I'm glad to see it get thrown in the world stage.
 
Cilvilt_beredskap said:
He wanted some kind of guarantees in tandem with the mineral deal, because otherwise he's just selling his country's resources. Can Putin be trusted with the deal he made in 19? How the Russian foreign department lied the Ukrainians to their faces before the invasion? There's also Trump claiming his country is falling over and over and that he should be incredibly grateful for them to even allow him there. It is, but it's arguably slower than Russia at this pace. And what's he supposed to say anyway? "Pretty please with sugar on top, can you please don't give Russia the green light to annex all the territories they've claimed including what they're not occupying? Please don't reward hideous war crimes and a ridocoulsly one sided peace which is the signals you give us when you're talking to our enemy behind our back about peace talks?"
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Maybe so but it was a diplomatic CF to bring it up in a public presser like that.
All those points you raised are not negotiated live in front of reporters.
So yeah maybe he did need to have those questions clarified, fair enough. I would probably be asking the same questions.
But to do it in front of the world some how expecting to bully the US and worse yet Trump and the people who voted for him.

It was a total diplomatic face plant.
Want to know why? Simple because it didn’t work and he was asked to leave with nothing. That a failure on his part
 
IMHO President Trump says one thing in public and is very different in private. I don't think he will abandon NATO or any of our allies. By saying he is has caused NATO to dramatically increase aid to Ukraine. I think today's meeting with President Zelensky was a show, what they said in private was totally the opposite. He will make a deal with President Putin, Things go better when you are not insulting and demeaning someone (President Putin) when you want to settle things. I may be totally wrong, only time will tell.
 
DarkNoon said:
Decent people thank Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1895574841664938309
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I’ve supported Ukraine but I have nothing to thank them for. They were fighting for their own future not Europe's or the US

Failure not have a war plan for three years, that’s on the last administration and Europe. The message to Ukraine has been clear from Trump from the begin. We’re going for peace, get on board and we will do all we can to help you out of it.

Now the message to Europe is we will support what is needed to reach a peace.
But if you choose to escalate then that is a violation of the nato treaty.
Should NATO have gotten involved more and directly yes, but that moment has passed.
There greatest military partner is not going to continue this just to grind the people to hamburger.
nato for the last three years drug their feet and wanted to do the bare minimum.
So it is foolish and ignorant to think this new administration is somehow obliged to clean up the fucking mess.

End it or by a plane ticket to Ukraine and pick up an AK, and quit talking tough.
 
OReid said:
They were fighting for their own future not Europe's or the US
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Oh yes they were! Not of themselves, though. If Russia isn't stopped now, both Russia and China will see it as approval to do more.

This is how WWII started.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Oh yes they were! Not of themselves, though. If Russia isn't stopped now, both Russia and China will see it as approval to do more.

This is how WWII started.
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So it’s just a repeat of when we did nothing about Georgia, or Crimea.
If that’s the case then that precedent was set 15 years ago.

Everyone wants to defend Ukraine but no wanted to send nato troops to Ukraine when it was a plausible timeframe to do it.
I said from the beginning that ukraine Could and should repel Russia. But it would take much greater nato involvement. But that was too risky because of nukes.
So that ship has already sailed.

So send them troops and put an air cap over Ukraine. As you have often said not going to happen.
So they were fighting for Europe to what end? Till they don’t have enough troops to send to the front. Is that when nato will send troops.

We’re not going to fight for them we won’t let them have the bomb, but will completely dedicated to have them die for us?
 
"In domestic politics, Trump has gone a long way by bullying people and by bluffing," says historian Timothy Snyder. "When it comes to our enemies, like Russia and China... it doesn't work at all. It simply has no effect on them because they are not afraid of Trump.".
https://twitter.com/x/status/1895670349884240371
 
DarkNoon said:
Australia PM:
For three years Australia has proudly supported the brave people of Ukraine in their struggle to defend their sovereignty against the brutality of Russian aggression and in support of international law.

Australia stands with Ukraine. 🇦🇺🇺🇦.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1895648078801334654
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Thanks for standing with Ukraine YingYang.

Glad to see out of everyone your tax dollars going to kill Russians the most satisfying. ;)
 
OReid said:
So it’s just a repeat of when we did nothing about Georgia, or Crimea.
If that’s the case then that precedent was set 15 years ago.
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It doesn't have to be that way. GOP choosing to go that way. GOP control the government right now. All 3 branches, do something about it instead of putting your heads in the sand or appeasing Putin which is only furthering the problem and will later start even greater trouble in the future embolding Putin.

Give me a break please!
 
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DarkNoon said:
It doesn't have to be that way. GOP choosing to go that way. GOP control the government right now. All 3 branches, do something about it instead of putting your heads in the sand or appeasing Putin which is only furthering the problem and will later start even greater trouble in the future embolding Putin.

Give me a break please. 🙄
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Like nato and Biden didn’t do for three years to fight this to win? That is the point I’m making. Just because all of what nato and the US did for three years was ill planned and reactionary. Does not in anyway validate we should stay on that same path with no end in sight. Or that choosing a different directions is wrong.

As yet I’ve not heard of a viable plan that could be supported by all nations in nato that is a path to winning and peace.
Im still waiting.

Repeating or continuing doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is such a proven path to victory.
Why did in not think of it sooner?

Will it embolden Putin maybe, that in very much depends how we continue to support the Eastern European nato members.
I’ll remind you again Putin was not emboldened to try anything the last time Trump was in office. He saved that for Bush Obama and Biden
 
DarkNoon said:
Oh. My. God. Whataboutisim. GOP controls the government, all three branches, no excuses. Instead of doing somthing about it GOP is complain about how's it been mishandled and then processed to do nothing about it but give up and embolden Putin.

Do something about it instead of putting your heads in the sand, appeasing Putin, and subsequently kicking the proverbial can down the road only for things to be worse in the future.

America needs to be saved from this walking disaster known as Trump and the GOP party purged/unelected of this Russia appeasement bullshit which is so unbelievablly un-American it's truly gutt wrenching.

Trump has done more to hurt/weaken America in the past two months then our enemies could have ever hoped for in the past decade.
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