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UA-RU-NATO War & Ukraine Peace Talks | Discussions

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This isn’t me saying we should give into Russias demands because we shouldn’t, but it’s stupid to label any attempt at negotiations appeasement on the level of chamberlain because every war ends with each side giving things up to appease the other.
 
Socom7 said:
Tomayto, tomahto. The marching orders come from the WH. Congress is not in command of any troops, and cannot "decide to honor" (or not to honor) article 5.

It's all in Trump's hands, and he can do whatever the hell he wants.
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Congress has the last say, people forget that.
 
Snowfall said:
every war ends with each side giving things up to appease the other.
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Not in the spectacular fashion of capitulation Trump has done thus far with Putin. Putin has Trump eating out of his hands. Trump so manipulated by false empty Russian threats he will jump whenever Putin says jump.
 
Erecon said:
Congress has the last say, people forget that.
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Like this spineless enabling Congress is going to do anything against their dear overlord. They have already essentially handed over all their authority to Trump but on papper. Only courts now in the way of a total dictatorship.
 
Also the leverage held against the Japanese was twicefold what we hold against the Russians. The japanese didn't have a choice. The U.S and Russia are pretty evenly matched( I know, pinch me) when it comes to missiles and the ability to mobilize. What Donald is doing right now is true appeasement in the fact that he is clearly and directly giving Russia the momentum in this fight. This is why we see so many European nations coming out in support of Ukraine. My question is, if Trump is as strong as he claims he is, why doesn't he support Ukraine and Nato while working out trade agreements like the mineral deal for military aid with other european countries? He could be using the soft power that the US has accumulated over the decades to reign in a friendly Europe with a mutually beneficial relationship but instead he is taking such a hardliner approach to the situation. While vigor and energy might be required for his domestic pursuits, he has to learn to temper himself for the world ahead. These next few years require a strong but clearheaded leader. Like when we see JD Vance go to Germany for a security conference and solely talk about European domestic issues.
 
Snowfall said:
Correct but Ukraine is and peace deal that’s signed will have to be approved by them or they will keep fighting as they should.
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At the root I feel like we would agree that the strategy of military aid for Ukraine is flawed. They are in a war of attrition where doctrine change is impossible on entrenched positions without game-changing hardware. Enough Ukraine having to rely on flushing out Europe and NA for artillery shells, give them 50 HIMARS/tandem with F-16ES and watch the fireworks go. Instead of thousands of old pieces of equipment that end up getting good soldiers killed on a modern battlefield.
 
DarkNoon said:
Like this spineless enabling Congress is going to do anything against their dear overlord. They have already essentially handed over all their authority to Trump but on papper. Only courts now in the way of a total dictatorship.
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VF claims many GOP congressmen dare not speak out against Trump because they're scared shitless of MAGA kooks going after them and their families.

Sounds plausible. Guess Trump won't even need a proper SS.
 
Peter Griffin said:
Also the leverage held against the Japanese was twicefold what we hold against the Russians. The japanese didn't have a choice. The U.S and Russia are pretty evenly matched( I know, pinch me) when it comes to missiles and the ability to mobilize.
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I don’t disagree, all I’m saying is that we shouldn’t count negotiations out just because Ukraine gives up a couple things and label it as appeasement. I’m all in favor of the west giving Ukraine whatever it needs to win this war I’ve said it on here dozens of times and I stand by that statement. But I also recognize the reality that Ukraine has a manpower shortage and the west has been unwilling to provide the support Ukraine has asked for. Ukraine shouldn’t completely capitulate and should get security guarantees to prevent this conflict from starting again. But they will likely have to give up the currently occupied territories without a western intervention that is likely never going to happen. The frontline is static both sides have exhausted their combat potential which is the time to negotiate.
 
Snowfall said:
Couldn’t you say this about the entirety of Europe?
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100% or they knew and relied on Russia for natural resources. There were many complicit in Russian corruption. I urge all of my friends here on the right to look at what Paul Manafort was doing in Ukraine in the 2010s and prior.
 
Peter Griffin said:
At the root I feel like we would agree that the strategy of military aid for Ukraine is flawed. They are in a war of attrition where doctrine change is impossible on entrenched positions without game-changing hardware. Enough Ukraine having to rely on flushing out Europe and NA for artillery shells, give them 50 HIMARS/tandem with F-16ES and watch the fireworks go. Instead of thousands of old pieces of equipment that end up getting good soldiers killed on a modern battlefield.
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Bingo thats where I stand. I’m just at the point that if we’re not going to do that I’d rather see Ukraine come out an independent nation than lose the rest of it because the west isn’t willing to provide the weapons and Ukraine is running out of manpower. That’s fine if you disagree but I’m not pro Russian in the slightest just pessimistic.
 
DarkNoon said:
Like this spineless enabling Congress is going to do anything against their dear overlord. They have already essentially handed over all their authority to Trump but on papper. Only courts now in the way of a total dictatorship.
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But you cant change the constitution unless both houses vote 2/3 for it. And I dont believe the democrats are willing to allow Trump to be a dictator, atm its like 50/50 at best. ( sorry this is perhaps better for the politics section )
 
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TruthandJustice said:
What a shit show this world has become. WW3 likely in the next 5-10 years based on the signs leading up to WW2. I hope people that voted for Trump are happy with this outcome. I personally believe he was installed by Russia as we are essentially already at war with them. No way the country can be this stupid. I’ll take that to my grave.
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He was installed via a process of dumbing down and propagandizing that took decades, between inventing and amplifying culture war nonsense, enveloping a generation in a Fox News bubble, eroding education standards, destroying peoples' shared sense of reality with fake news and conspiracies, breaking down communities peoples' sense of belonging and broader purpose - one that I don't even think was initiated by Russia, but certainly thoroughly hijacked and sent into overdrive by them in the last decade or so.
Perhaps a combination of some bad actors (ie. Murdoch w/ Fox), slight nudges to the system to help certain politicians over the years synergizing and metastasizing alongside the general side effects of decline due to other policies (ie. raeganomics), festering naturally like a patch of mold on American civilization until it grew enough and became a vulnerability for Putin to exploit.
 
Erecon said:
But you cant change the constitution unless both houses vote 2/3 for it. And I dont believe the democrats are willing to allow Trump to be a dictator, atm its like 50/50 at best. ( sorry this is perhaps better for the politics section )
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Oh, the fabled US Constitution... That piece of toilet paper sitting in a display case somewhere, waiting for Trump to wipe his ass with it... And he will; after all he's just declared that he can break no law because he's "saving the country".

Yeah; the constitution will totally save you from tyranny. 🤣
 
Socom7 said:
Oh, the fabled US Constitution... That piece of toilet paper sitting in a display case somewhere, waiting for Trump to wipe his ass with it... And he will; after all he's just declared that he can break no law because he's "saving the country".

Yeah; the constitution will totally save you from tyranny. 🤣
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Man you need a break from the internet.
 
beaker-fire.gif

I'll admit I probably took my fair share in it but let's try to keep it civil, this thread is pretty important at the moment and would be a shame to see it locked again.
 
Well I see it’s a full court press of democratic talking points and
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I am not going to engage with any of that
burning keratinous filament because it would be like adding hair spray to the conflagration.

But I’ll leave a Mark Twain quote

When even the brightest mind in our world has been trained up from childhood in a superstition of any kind, it will never be possible for that mind to examine sincerely, dispassionately, and conscientiously any evidence or any circumstance which shall seem to cast a doubt upon the validity of that superstition

When reasoning and discussion are gone and all that is left is prognostications of doom tyranny and betrayal.
Then you might want to ask who exactly is caught up in cult like thinking.
 
Any economist here on forum that thinks decreasing world consumer trade (tarifs) will hurt Russia? ( specific decreasing energy prices ) and would you be able to explain how it will?
 
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