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US-Israel/Iran | CF Unstable & Unresolved | April-18th/May-20th | Analysis

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Lostpuppy said:
Thinking peace is off the table🤔
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If Iran truly believes in the return of the Mahdi during a time of confrontation, one could argue that true peace from Iran is never really on the table as long as the regime and the IRGC is in charge.
 
RiffRaff said:
I remember both of these incidents. Centuries of naval tradition say a captain who loses his ship needs to be relieved of command, but I thought the US Navy was unnecessarily harsh on the captain of the Stark.


Very rarely do those actually calling the shots pay for the deaths for which they are ultimately responsible.
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Not entirely true, Hitler paid for his mistakes, as did Milosevic,
But your right it seems too many leaders escape a reckoning for their actions. Unfortunately life is not black and white. We long for justice and yes retribution.
But it’s just not the way of things.

If it was I fear I would not like what was meted out to me. Today I live with the idea to do no harm. I did not always though.
 
teekay99 said:
If Iran truly believes in the return of the Mahdi during a time of confrontation, one could argue that true peace from Iran is never really on the table as long as the regime and the IRGC is in charge.
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Do they truly believe in the Mahdi’s return?
Severe drought proceeds the return of the Mahdi as well. They’re
approaching the point where all their reservoirs for the cities will be out of water. Some down to 11%.

I’m not giving any credence to Islamic prophasy here. Only pointing it out with the idea in mind that the Twelvers are probably pretty animated at this point.
 
Trump... Iran shot at US Navy vessels and bombed the UAE's only oil export terminal after you issued your threats. Also blew up a South Korean ship during your operation to open the Strait. At least say that Iran violated the ceasefire?
 
  • What is the point of the Iran ceasefire exactly?
  • What kind of Iranian attack constitutes a cease fire violation?
  • What is the administration's plan (that's plan folks, not goals, not hopes, not dreams, not desires, and not political rhetoric) for wrapping up the conflict in Iran?
This feckless administration seems to have created a pointless malaise. Iran is clearly waiting us out. I feel as though if the US does not finish the IRGC, US international relationships, innocent Iranian citizens, innocent Israeli citizens, and American military personnel have all died in vain to satisfy the ego of a spineless presidential administration that misjudged the Iranian regime's resolve.
 
teekay99 said:
  • What is the point of the Iran ceasefire exactly?
  • What kind of Iranian attack constitutes a cease fire violation?
  • What is the administration's plan (that's plan folks, not goals, not hopes, not dreams, not desires, and not political rhetoric) for wrapping up the conflict in Iran?
This feckless administration seems to have created a pointless malaise. Iran is clearly waiting us out. I feel as though if the US does not finish the IRGC, US international relationships, innocent Iranian citizens, innocent Israeli citizens, and American military personnel have all died in vain to satisfy the ego of a spineless presidential administration that misjudged the Iranian regime's resolve.
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Add the global energy infrastructure, & civilians in the Gulf states, and numerous others who were injured on tankers the IRGC attacked as well.

As the effects of the blockade start taking effect, Iran will continue escalating strikes on energy infrastructure. This "ceasefire" was a giant waste of time that just worsened the global energy crisis and needlessly kicked the can down the road.
 
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If things are not happening fast enough to suit the EU’s, Indonesia and China needs, they are free to help out saving their own skins and wallets.

The only Feckless here are the cowards hoping their younger smaller and poorer brother will defend them so they will be free to bitch about his help.
 
Torch said:
If things are not happening fast enough to suit the EU’s, Indonesia and China needs, they are free to help out saving their own skins and wallets.

The only Feckless here are the cowards hoping their younger smaller and poorer brother will defend them so they will be free to bitch about his help.
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It's not the EU, Indonesia or China who got shot at.... It's US Navy vessels. Iran has shot at US forces 10 times since the ceasefire. And Iran broke the ceasefire they signed with the United States, not with the other parties.
 
teekay99 said:
  • What is the point of the Iran ceasefire exactly?
  • What kind of Iranian attack constitutes a cease fire violation?
  • What is the administration's plan (that's plan folks, not goals, not hopes, not dreams, not desires, and not political rhetoric) for wrapping up the conflict in Iran?
This feckless administration seems to have created a pointless malaise. Iran is clearly waiting us out. I feel as though if the US does not finish the IRGC, US international relationships, innocent Iranian citizens, innocent Israeli citizens, and American military personnel have all died in vain to satisfy the ego of a spineless presidential administration that misjudged the Iranian regime's resolve.
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Careful, the terminology used in this post are right on the line of promoting partisan politics on the boards. Rewording it below to contrast a potentially politically inflammatory post versus a more analytical post:

The current administration seems to have created a pointless malaise. Iran is clearly waiting us out. I feel as though if the US does not finish the IRGC, US international relationships, innocent Iranian citizens, innocent Israeli citizens, and American military personnel have all died in vain due to the administration misjudging the Iranian's resolve.

Do you see the difference between those two posts? The analysis of the administration creating a pointless malaise and misjudging the Iranian resolve is all still there, but words designed to invoke an emotional reaction and potentially derail the thread into partisan politics were changed or removed.

The intent of using neutral terminology is to create thoughtful analysis and discussion.
The intent of using words like "feckless" and "spineless" is to provoke an emotional response.

@teekay99 This is not really a criticism or attempt to call you out in public. I just saw an opportunity to make a point about recognizing the power of the words we choose. It was a perfect learning opportunity.
 
Torch said:
If things are not happening fast enough to suit the EU’s, Indonesia and China needs, they are free to help out saving their own skins and wallets.
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Speed isn't my concern. I am American, so I'm not concerned about how fast EU and China think this conflict should move. I believe the regime should have been eliminated er I mean prematurely introduced to "Paradise" in 1979 or 1980 over the US embassy hostage fiasco.

Torch said:
The only Feckless here are the cowards hoping their younger smaller and poorer brother will defend them so they will be free to bitch about his help.
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The US and Israel started this round of conflict without consulting with other nations. So I understand the hesitation of EU nations. However, I do believe they are being short-sighted at the least.

A person or administration that is feckless is ineffective, weak, incompetent, and lacking purpose. I see how that could apply to some EU fair-weather "friends". But it seemingly applies to the Trump administration too with respect to the current state of the Iran conflict. Many on this forum commented that air strikes alone would not do the job. The administration has not followed up the air strikes with the right mix of forces to eliminate the IRGC. Meanwhile, the administration is holding on to some kind of one-sided cease fire while Iran continues to fight. So right now, from the Trump administration, I see little interest to execute this conflict with intent or purpose. I see ineffectiveness, weakness, and political incompetence. Hence, fecklessness.
 
RiffRaff said:
Careful, the terminology used in this post are right on the line of promoting partisan politics on the boards. Rewording it below to contrast a potentially politically inflammatory post versus a more analytical post:

The current administration seems to have created a pointless malaise. Iran is clearly waiting us out. I feel as though if the US does not finish the IRGC, US international relationships, innocent Iranian citizens, innocent Israeli citizens, and American military personnel have all died in vain due to the administration misjudging the Iranian's resolve.

Do you see the difference between those two posts? The analysis of the administration creating a pointless malaise and misjudging the Iranian resolve is all still there, but words designed to invoke an emotional reaction and potentially derail the thread into partisan politics were changed or removed.

The intent of using neutral terminology is to create thoughtful analysis and discussion.
The intent of using words like "feckless" and "spineless" is to provoke an emotional response.

@teekay99 This is not really a criticism or attempt to call you out in public. I just saw an opportunity to make a point about recognizing the power of the words we choose. It was a perfect learning opportunity.
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Understood. Regrettably I did not see this before I made a follow-up post. It may need to be deleted. Apologies.

Ultimately, as an American citizen, I am thoroughly frustrated with the prosecution of this conflict. My post is more about expressing my disdain and less about provoking others. I believe Iran should be toppled, and I would like to see the administration work effectively to achieve that goal.
 
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teekay99 said:
Understood. Regrettably I did not see this before I made a follow-up post. It may need to be deleted. Apologies.
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No apology necessary. I appreciate you letting me use your post for demonstration purposes.

teekay99 said:
Ultimately, as an American citizen, I am thoroughly frustrated with the prosecution of this conflict. I believe Iran should be toppled, and I would like to see the administration work effectively to achieve that goal.
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Most Americans are thoroughly frustrated. The toppling of Iran is a different discussion, but I will point out we tried that once before, and it didn't end well for us or them. And this administration seems to be making the same mistakes of several prior administrations by not fully committing to a clear specific goal. We're half-assing it over there, which is the exact same mistake we made in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan. If you're going to go to war, which is simply "diplomacy by other means," then go in with everything you have and get the war over as quickly as possible. The *need* for the war is certainly debatable, but once you have made up your mind, don't hold back.
 
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