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UA-RU-NATO War & Ukraine Peace Talks | Discussions

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Irag8er said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1890053083436130397
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I guess I don’t know what everyone really expected. It’s been known for at least a year that Ukraine was going to have to give up some territory even Zelenskyy acknowledged it. Everyone said that Ukraine isn’t joining NATO anytime soon. I’m not sure why everyone is so mad at the Trump administration for repeating what everyone else has already said. Especially while many European leaders continue to stand on their soapboxes saying they need to do more for Ukraine while not doing it, looking at you Germany.
 
Regardless of the outcome I do NOT want any sanctions lifted and business as usual with Russia to resume. There was a push since the beginning of this thing for UKR to yield by certain, monied individuals who coincidentally had lucrative business with the Russian Federation before the sanctions hit. Makes me feel like they were selling UKR down the river just to get at that sweet, sweet Russian honey again.
 
WD_Gaster said:
Regardless of the outcome I do NOT want any sanctions lifted and business as usual with Russia to resume. There was a push since the beginning of this thing for UKR to yield by certain, monied individuals who coincidentally had lucrative business with the Russian Federation before the sanctions hit. Makes me feel like they were selling UKR down the river just to get at that sweet, sweet Russian honey again.
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This is the most important thing. When the Obama administration had their “relations reset” after Crimea and Europe went back to buying Russian oil it pushed us to the situation we’re in today.
 
Snowfall said:
This is the most important thing. When the Obama administration had their “relations reset” after Crimea and Europe went back to buying Russian oil it pushed us to the situation we’re in today.
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Right... cause all these "reasons" is the perfect excuse for Trump to entirely bend over a barrel for Putin. 🙄 I really wonder what kind of lube Trump prefers.
 
DarkNoon said:
Right... cause all these "reasons" is the perfect excuse for Trump to entirely bend over a barrel for Putin. 🙄 I really wonder what kind of lube Trump prefers.
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The agreement hasn’t even come out yet. All they did was state was the Biden administration and the European leaders have been saying for at least a year. Also judging by the amount of discussion Trump and his aids have had with Ukraine in the past weeks I have a feeling there’s a lot more than meets the eye behind the scenes otherwise I’m sure the Ukranian reaction would be much harsher than it is.
 
The frontline in Ukraine is not stable. The push for peace talks is smart as it allows Russia to have a false sense of security, while Ukraine hopefully gets some new very powerful goodies that they could use to good effect in Kursk Oblast, every village they secure is one more Ukrainian village that can be traded for in the negotiations. And the only area where the Ukrainians have found extensive offensive success in the last year is Kursk, so that is what I am betting is their gambit.
 
Are we going to send manpower or provide total air cap for Ukraine? Likely not Biden WH wouldn’t do it, and European leaders don’t want that involvement, neither does Trump.

I hear Putin is going to “bend Trump over a whatever”. So again I ask what is the alternative to continuing what has become a stalemated war. Still waiting?

Should Russia have invaded Ukraine? No.
Could it have been won? Yes.
But we all know that wars are more than just technological and logistical endeavors. They are also about momentum, commitment and numbers.
NATO sending troops now is a 60/40 chance of changing the war. And a 95/5 % chance of it happening. So that’s a no.
Would more technology change the outcome, possibly but there are a lot of variables. Quantity, training and tactics.
And of course the other guy always gets a vote.
That is too many variables to depend on to blindly continue on the war.

So again if Ukraine comes away with some tangible security guarantees, what ever is required then it a win for Ukraine and a loss for Russia.

As far as Trump being Putin’s bitch, those who keep saying this thus far, what exactly do you propose?
Was what was being done working?
So is Trump doing the same thing going to work?
Was Biden NaTO leaders ever going to send troops? So why should we expect a change.

Trump failed because he failed to fix the mess that has been created? Really, is this going to be the claim?

What magic event over the horizon do you propose is going to occur to break this stalemate?

Do you want to escalate? Keep supplying a stalemated war for another three years in the hopium Putin will be ousted of the Russian federation will collapse. Keeping Putin militarily weak is one thing. Collapsing russia another multi generational period of wars and conflicts fought in the ass end of the world.
 
TruthandJustice said:
What a shit show this world has become. WW3 likely in the next 5-10 years based on the signs leading up to WW2. I hope people that voted for Trump are happy with this outcome. I personally believe he was installed by Russia as we are essentially already at war with them. No way the country can be this stupid. I’ll take that to my grave.
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What exactly does installed mean? By claiming this are you implying I am a blind stooge or Putin asset.
OR, am I an American citizen who happens to have a different vision for the nations future based upon our history and founding documents. Or is it my unwillingness to conform or acquiesce and believe, to conform to what I am told.

Implying an elected official is some kind of Manchurian candidate is a bold statement. One that should be supported with something besides just an opposition's lose hyperbole.
 
OReid said:
Are we going to send manpower or provide total air cap for Ukraine? Likely not Biden WH wouldn’t do it, and European leaders don’t want that involvement, neither does Trump.

I hear Putin is going to “bend Trump over a whatever”. So again I ask what is the alternative to continuing what has become a stalemated war. Still waiting?

Should Russia have invaded Ukraine? No.
Could it have been won? Yes.
But we all know that wars are more than just technological and logistical endeavors. They are also about momentum, commitment and numbers.
NATO sending troops now is a 60/40 chance of changing the war. And a 95/5 % chance of it happening. So that’s a no.
Would more technology change the outcome, possibly but there are a lot of variables. Quantity, training and tactics.
And of course the other guy always gets a vote.
That is too many variables to depend on to blindly continue on the war.

So again if Ukraine comes away with some tangible security guarantees, what ever is required then it a win for Ukraine and a loss for Russia.

As far as Trump being Putin’s bitch, those who keep saying this thus far, what exactly do you propose?
Was what was being done working?
So is Trump doing the same thing going to work?
Was Biden NaTO leaders ever going to send troops? So why should we expect a change.

Trump failed because he failed to fix the mess that has been created? Really, is this going to be the claim?

What magic event over the horizon do you propose is going to occur to break this stalemate?

Do you want to escalate? Keep supplying a stalemated war for another three years in the hopium Putin will be ousted of the Russian federation will collapse. Keeping Putin militarily weak is one thing. Collapsing russia another multi generational period of wars and conflicts fought in the ass end of the world.
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it is easy to end a war if you unilaterally surrender, yeah. 🙄
 
OReid said:
What exactly does installed mean? By claiming this are you implying I am a blind stooge or Putin asset.
OR, am I an American citizen who happens to have a different vision for the nations future based upon our history and founding documents. Or is it my unwillingness to conform or acquiesce and believe, to conform to what I am told.

Implying an elected official is some kind of Manchurian candidate is a bold statement. One that should be supported with something besides just an opposition's lose hyperbole.
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Just playing devil's advocate here because I don't think Trump is a Russian asset, anymore. However what is your opinion on the Steele Dossier? Of course the validity of the subject matter is extremely hard to verify, however if it were to be found to be true, I'd say it would be pretty compelling evidence that he was blackmailed by the GRU.
 
Peter Griffin said:
Just playing devil's advocate here because I don't think Trump is a Russian asset, anymore. However what is your opinion on the Steele Dossier? Of course the validity of the subject matter is extremely hard to verify, however if it were to be found to be true, I'd say it would be pretty compelling evidence that he was blackmailed by the GRU.
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Well we had the muller investigation that labored over this and other issues looking for some form of collusion for three years.
And nothing, so what again are we falling back on the Steele Dossier? But hey hopium is a life tactic.

The bottom line is Trump is willing to break the thinking of the establishment way of doing things. In doing this he is exposing their past failures and methodology of foreign relations.
He is a wreaking ball looking for new solutions. One can argue this is dangerous but criminal or traitorous? Sorry still yet to see it.
 
Peter Griffin said:
Glad to see his is still sticking up for himself. Would not want to be in his shoes right now.
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I just listened to a statement by Hegseth, nato membership is out. That said it does not diminish the need for Ukrainian security. This can be accomplished by a collection of European and non European peacekeepers in Ukraine to provide that guarantee. While at same time eliminating the nato article 5 conundrum.
So this in no way looking like an abandonment of Ukraine.
 
DarkNoon said:
Keep telling yourself that.
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Well I will it’s what’s being reported by officials and they are working to implement exactly what was campaigned on. There is a track record of actions to follow vs Trumps going to get lubed and and bent over.
So I’m comfortable With my position and do not need to resort to imaginary of sexual assault or thus far unproven alarmist claims
 
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