UA-RU-NATO War & Ukraine Peace Talks | Discussions

[william]

Where only putting ourselves in that situation you laid out. We can entirely 100% change the situation on the ground if we put the initiative forward. But instead where putting our heads in the sand and kicking the can down the road or falling for Russian Propoganda. No, sorry you lost me again.

The "slow burn" your talking about Ukraine suffering is entirely by western design, unintentionally or not, it is our actions that have lead us to this point AND it can be our actions that turn it around for Ukraine, it can be far from over. But I guess we rather play kicking the can down the road because it's "to hard" right now. Guess what. Only going to get worse appeasing Putin like we are right now.

It can be our actions that push russia into a deeper alliance with china, iran, nk and the middle east also. It is already happing and if it continues, you're going to get WWIII. How many will die then.

 

[NuclearID]

Out of curiosity do you know if there’s numbers on money given in the form of weapons vs humanitarian causes. Not trying to argue just genuinely curious.

Fact check: nearly 70 percent of US money for Ukraine actually went to US defense industry to replenish the stocks of OLD stuff that went to Ukraine to use.

Much of which we would have paid to destroy as their lifespan expired..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1891169435936854390

Was a win win all around but Trump is playing right into Putin and Russian propaganda. Sad. Seems like most of the right has too, even sadder.

 

[Torch]

Sad, truly sad, even you have been fooled by piss poor Russian propaganda. Empty fake red lines and threats. Spare me please. So what, reward Russia for its behavior cause your "scared".

Only people in danger is our children's future because where going to embolden and reward Putin for his behavior which means Ukraine will not be the last, 100% guaranteed won't be the last time we see Putin move on Europe.

Really sad borderline repugnant. Thought a lot of you where smarter and better then this.

<self snip, removing unneeded jabs>

Wow. So everyone is wrong and DarkNoon is right?

Might be time for some critical thinking there.

We absolutely completely and without a doubt lied to Russia about NATO expansion. Now whether that promise was the US is to make or not, we made it and it was bullshit.

Personally, I would’ve done the same thing. I would’ve told them whatever it took to get them the back the heck off and let east Germany and Poland go. Anything.

That’s what the diplomats called a lie. Now I’m OK lying to some big evil empire like the Soviet Union or even an asshole like Putin (who actually qualifies as a super asshole in the rarefied air of Stalin and Pol Pot) but it’s still a lie.

I’m also pissed with Zee‘s sense of entitlement. As much as I hate what the Russians are doing, I hate being played more. Besides all wars end. This one will not end in a UA victory over Russia. The fact that they still exist is a victory.

Edited for atrocious, grammar and punctuation only. Content and meaning unchanged.

 

[Torch]

It takes 67 votes in senate to leave NATO. So where NEVER leaving NATO. NO matter how much the orange clown complains about it. GOP is not going find 16 DEMs to vote to leave NATO.

So yes doing this is only going to reward Putins behavior and embolding it and make our lives that much more in danger as Putin will be embolden to test NATO.

We will then be stuck in the same if not more dangerous situation as it will embolden Putin to move further on Europe. Guess what we apart NATO, forever, and will have to defend them.

It is very sad to see everyone falling for pushing to kick the can down the road instead of actually taking care of the problem here and now. Guess people need to change their tampons being so scared from Putins threats. Jesus's Christ.

You can all say (very ignorantly imo) that Europeans can go take care of themselves. But we're still in NATO REGARDLESS what that clown in the WH says and again you're NOT going to find 16 Democrats who are going to vote in the senate to leave NATO. Because you need a 2/3 Majority 67 votes to nullify, sign, or change a treaty such as NATO.

All you need is 51 votes.

If you have 51 the President can do anything he wishes. The house can impeach (like an Article 31 or Grand Jury indictment) all day long, back to back.

The Senate can either vote to recess, they could vote not to hear the case and they could vote not guilty.

See 51 votes and the President can Ignore any treaty all week long 24/7

 

[Torch]

Trump will now deliver what every Russian leader since Czar Alexander II couldn't accomplish, America will bow to a filthy Russian.

No it means America, which is bankrupt from spending on things like this, can come home.

Let Germany and France take over. They can walk, we need a damn boat or plane to get there.

IMO Your arguments need to be a little stronger than silliness like bowing to filthy Russians. First it might just be a head nod with a few knowing looks and glances. Also, I’m pretty sure Putin bathes.

 

[NuclearID]

bowing to filthy Russians

That's exactly what Trump is doing. I'm sure Putin is celebrating like no tomorrow as Trump does what every Russian president has ever wanted handed to them on a silver plater. FUCKING silly if you think we can get Russia to work against China or anyone else, they will still work together against us while we face them alone now. Retarted. Literally shooting ourselves.

 

[NuclearID]

An Eastern European Official has told the German Newspaper, BILD, that discussions are ongoing in regards to the withdrawal of U.S. Troops from all Countries in Europe that joined the NATO Alliance after 1990, which is reported to have been one of the Goals of recent Negotiations between Russia and the United States. This would include Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Sweden. Additionally, preparations are said to be ongoing in Italy, for the possible withdrawal of U.S. Forces from Kosovo.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1892274897336094888

Trump will now deliver what every Russian leader since Czar Alexander II couldn't accomplish, America will bow to a filthy Russian.

 

[Snowfall]

Trump will now deliver what every Russian leader since Czar Alexander II couldn't accomplish, America will bow to a filthy Russian.

Pretty sure this all stems from an FT article from over the weekend that said they were more preparing for a worst case scenario then it being a plausible outcome. The president of Poland issued a statement about it yesterday I posted it in reports.

 

[alphaecho]

Elon Musk can disable Starlink for the Ukrainian Armed Forces at any moment, leaving soldiers without communication. Without a Plan B, we could lose many lives, warns Ukrainian volunteer Maria Berlinska.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1892321960131965089

 

[Publius]

The deals are not through negotiation but the handwritting is on the wall. Ukrain gets used, abused, and screwed once again.

"Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." (Matthew 24:12-13)

"Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." (1 Timothy 6:9-10)"

"A perverse person stirs up conflict, and a gossip separates close friends. A violent person entices their neighbor and leads them down a path thatis not good." (Proverbs 16:28-29)

"My enemies say of me in malice, “When will he die and his name perish?” When one of them comes to see me, he speaks falsely, while his heart gathers slander; then he goes outand spreads it around. All my enemies whisper together against me; they imagine the worst for me, saying, 'A vile disease has afflicted him; he will never get up from the place where he lies.' Even my close friend, someone I trusted, one who shared my bread, has turned against me." (Psalm 41:5-9)

“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting”
Judging by sun Zhou standards every nation involved in this cluster missed that class

 

[Publius]

Sad, truly sad, even you have been fooled by piss poor Russian propaganda. Empty fake red lines and threats. Spare me please. So what, reward Russia for its behavior cause your "scared".

Only people in danger is our children's future because where going to embolden and reward Putin for his behavior which means Ukraine will not be the last, 100% guaranteed won't be the last time we see Putin move on Europe.

Really sad borderline repugnant. Thought a lot of you where smarter and better then this.

<self snip, removing unneeded jabs>

Are you involuntarily tinkling?
so much fear and anxiety wrapped your post regarding Ukraine.

You are an American right. Russia is not a direct threat to us, not for the next forty years, even if everything goes right for them.
You do understand the principle of “getting and keeping your own house in order “
As Torch has pointed pointed out we can do a lot of things to ensure or fix situations. But that does not need to include a suicide pac with WW3 “or” American troops being sent off to fight another unending foreign war.
That window of resolve has already passed.

Or is it just an obligatory reaction to wail and moan over whatever Trump does?

 

[Publius]

Europe Eyes Unprecedented €700 Billion Military Aid Plan for Ukraine

The EU is preparing a substantial defense package for Ukraine, estimated at €700 billion, to enhance security amid ongoing tensions with Russia.

united24media.com

Europe Eyes Unprecedented €700 Billion Military Aid Plan for Ukraine​

The European Union is reportedly working on a multi-billion-euro defense package to support Ukraine’s war effort, with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock hinting at the sheer scale of the upcoming package, suggesting it could be worth around $732.2 billion (€700 billion), German media Berliner Zeitung reported on February 18.

Select European heads of state met in Paris on Monday to coordinate their response after U.S. officials urged Europe to take concrete action.

“We will launch a large package, the likes of which we have never seen before,” Baerbock told Bloomberg during the Munich Security Conference.

You see now that wasn’t so hard after all.
“Message delivered”

 

[Publius]

No it means America, which is bankrupt from spending on things like this, can come home.

Let Germany and France take over. They can walk, we need a damn boat or plane to get there.

IMO Your arguments need to be a little stronger than silliness like bowing to filthy Russians. First it might just be a head nod with a few knowing looks and glances. Also, I’m pretty sure Putin bathes.

Maybe one should look at Trumps policies in global perspective
•Box off China inroads to the western hemisphere
•Drill baby drill. Oh that drops the price of oil and directly impacts the amount of money Putin has access to in order to support foreign interventions.
•Spook European capitals about the amount of america involvement in NATO, and wow European capitals find a way to budget 100’s of millions.
•take the leash of Israel and let it be know Israel and can do what the need to do to ensure their security.
•fly a training flight of B-52’s and F/A escort over 9 middle eastern nations to send a message to who

All of these things and others are proactive steps to address regional hotspots.


I read an interesting statement by Putin today.
He emphasized the importance of bi-lateral talks between the US and Russia.
It was important in his words “to reestablish trust between the US and Russia. It’s diplomacy it can be strange and sometimes overly formal.
It is just something to keep in mind.

Now one can and some likely will dismiss this with some colorful language about the US getting bent over.

But there was a day when the prospect of the US and Russia setting down to establish trust and involvement would have been lauded as a breakthrough in foreign relations.
just saying…….

 

[TruthandJustice]

Maybe one should look at Trumps policies in global perspective
•Box off China inroads to the western hemisphere
•Drill baby drill. Oh that drops the price of oil and directly impacts the amount of money Putin has access to in order to support foreign interventions.
•Spook European capitals about the amount of america involvement in NATO, and wow European capitals find a way to budget 100’s of millions.
•take the leash of Israel and let it be know Israel and can do what the need to do to ensure their security.
•fly a training flight of B-52’s and F/A escort over 9 middle eastern nations to send a message to who

All of these things and others are proactive steps to address regional hotspots.


I read an interesting statement by Putin today.
He emphasized the importance of bi-lateral talks between the US and Russia.
It was important in his words “to reestablish trust between the US and Russia. It’s diplomacy it can be strange and sometimes overly formal.
It is just something to keep in mind.

Now one can and some likely will dismiss this with some colorful language about the US getting bent over.

But there was a day when the prospect of the US and Russia setting down to establish trust and involvement would have been lauded as a breakthrough in foreign relations.
just saying…….

If Putin really wanted trust and involvement he would step down.

 

[Snowfall]

Maybe one should look at Trumps policies in global perspective
•Box off China inroads to the western hemisphere
•Drill baby drill. Oh that drops the price of oil and directly impacts the amount of money Putin has access to in order to support foreign interventions.
•Spook European capitals about the amount of america involvement in NATO, and wow European capitals find a way to budget 100’s of millions.
•take the leash of Israel and let it be know Israel and can do what the need to do to ensure their security.
•fly a training flight of B-52’s and F/A escort over 9 middle eastern nations to send a message to who

All of these things and others are proactive steps to address regional hotspots.


I read an interesting statement by Putin today.
He emphasized the importance of bi-lateral talks between the US and Russia.
It was important in his words “to reestablish trust between the US and Russia. It’s diplomacy it can be strange and sometimes overly formal.
It is just something to keep in mind.

Now one can and some likely will dismiss this with some colorful language about the US getting bent over.

But there was a day when the prospect of the US and Russia setting down to establish trust and involvement would have been lauded as a breakthrough in foreign relations.
just saying…….

Honestly it’s hard to tell what is people being pro Ukraine or anti Trump these days because many of things said by Trump have been said in Western capitals for months but it’s trumps fault for saying them. Trump has said a lot of dumb stuff too though so the water is murky. Brings to mind the importance of waiting for stuff to fully play out rather acting irrationally.

 

[Ovz]

An Eastern European Official has told the German Newspaper, BILD, that discussions are ongoing in regards to the withdrawal of U.S. Troops from all Countries in Europe that joined the NATO Alliance after 1990, which is reported to have been one of the Goals of recent Negotiations between Russia and the United States. This would include Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Sweden. Additionally, preparations are said to be ongoing in Italy, for the possible withdrawal of U.S. Forces from Kosovo

Who is the Eastern European Official that told the German Newspaper, BILD, that discussions are ongoing in regards to the withdrawal of U.S. Troops?

Or

Is this another “an anonymous source said”?

Has any one identified or verified that the afore mentioned is a reputable source and regarding statement that “Italy is preparing for this”!

My feeble internet search fails in finding validity of source?

 

[Torch]

Maybe one should look at Trumps policies in global perspective
•Box off China inroads to the western hemisphere
•Drill baby drill. Oh that drops the price of oil and directly impacts the amount of money Putin has access to in order to support foreign interventions.
•Spook European capitals about the amount of america involvement in NATO, and wow European capitals find a way to budget 100’s of millions.
•take the leash of Israel and let it be know Israel and can do what the need to do to ensure their security.
•fly a training flight of B-52’s and F/A escort over 9 middle eastern nations to send a message to who

All of these things and others are proactive steps to address regional hotspots.


I read an interesting statement by Putin today.
He emphasized the importance of bi-lateral talks between the US and Russia.
It was important in his words “to reestablish trust between the US and Russia. It’s diplomacy it can be strange and sometimes overly formal.
It is just something to keep in mind.

Now one can and some likely will dismiss this with some colorful language about the US getting bent over.

But there was a day when the prospect of the US and Russia setting down to establish trust and involvement would have been lauded as a breakthrough in foreign relations.
just saying…….

Me thinks his keyboard is broken

 

[Snowfall]

An Eastern European Official has told the German Newspaper, BILD, that discussions are ongoing in regards to the withdrawal of U.S. Troops from all Countries in Europe that joined the NATO Alliance after 1990, which is reported to have been one of the Goals of recent Negotiations between Russia and the United States. This would include Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Sweden. Additionally, preparations are said to be ongoing in Italy, for the possible withdrawal of U.S. Forces from Kosovo

Who is the Eastern European Official that told the German Newspaper, BILD, that discussions are ongoing in regards to the withdrawal of U.S. Troops?

Or

Is this another “an anonymous source said”?

Has any one identified or verified that the afore mentioned is a reputable source and regarding statement that “Italy is preparing for this”!

My feeble internet search fails in finding validity of source?

FT posted it a day earlier and it was more speculation by European countries than actual hard evidence so I’m assuming that it’s the same until the U.S. actually announces the policy.

 

[NuclearID]

Truly scary how much Russia has infiltrated the GOP party. Trump and the far right literally repeating word for word Russian propaganda FALSE talking points right off RT.

Putin has won its battle against the west and US/Trump rolling over like a dog and burry our heads in the sand hoping for the best. While giving Russia a win that every Russian leader has ever saught after.

Keep hearing this really, really stupidly thinking going on with the right that Russia will ever work with us or against China is seriously such a fool dreams.

Putin really has Trump and the right "in the bag" and fooled beyond belief. Really sad, unpatriotic, embarrassing as a American, and scary.

 

[NuclearID]

Trump blaming the defending nation for fighting for its own freedom.

Wow. Just wow.

That's like saying poland was responsible for Germany invading it in ww2, which is something Putin actually said if I recall.