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UA-RU-NATO War & Ukraine Peace Talks | Discussions

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DarkNoon said:
Trump doing more to hurt this country
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No. Trump is certainly looking out for the U.S., there's no question about that.

DarkNoon said:
and it's allies
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There's the problem. Trump is definitely "America First". The issue is that the alliance has been one-sided for a long time. So for the U.S. to suddenly assert itself is something new and repellent to the allies who are used to a more subservient U.S.

DarkNoon said:
then our enemies could have ever hoped for in the past 10 years.
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Enemies are certainly cheering for a fractured alliance. But the U.S. itself is stronger than it has been under previous administrations.
 
Cilvilt_beredskap said:
Honestly a bit confused as to why Zelensky wasn't at least a bit more nuanced today and could have at least gotten an investment form the US that Donald might at least want to protect somehow. However, I'd say he's a way more skilled diplomat than Vance or Trump and might have either not have expected the pushback or know that European leaders will wonder what the fuck Trump's deal is and want to support Ukraine more. To me Zelensky was the one disrespected, not exactly Trump.
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Zelinski either completely misread the situation or he really is consumed with blind emotion. Not a good day for anyone because this isn’t likely going to end peacefully.
 
Cilvilt_beredskap said:
Cilvilt_beredskap said:
Honestly a bit confused as to why Zelensky wasn't at least a bit more nuanced today and could have at least gotten an investment form the US that Donald might at least want to protect somehow. However, I'd say he's a way more skilled diplomat than Vance or Trump and might have either not have expected the pushback or know that European leaders will wonder what the fuck Trump's deal is and want to support Ukraine more.
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Cilvilt_beredskap said:
Cilvilt_beredskap said:
To me Zelensky was the one disrespected, not exactly Trump.
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110 percent correct.
 
Peter Griffin said:
Why does he continue to hesitate to put the blame on Russia for their unprovoked full scale invasion of a sovereign country that we had security guarantees with? Why does he continue to ostracize us from our allies instead of being strong AND compassionate? Sure you might strong arm them into paying more but what happens when those european countries that we have scorned form their own alliance because they are tired of being bossed around by Donald? They form a stronger relationship with China, that's what I'm betting on.
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Well Trump addressed that issue. What do you want me to say publicly Putin is a murder , and then turn around and try and have a discussion with him about ending the war.


Why at this point in this war is everyone so fricking obsessed with assigning blame. Rather that actually trying to fine solution.
That right there is where the real hubris lies.

Putin’s fault, Putin’s fault, Putin’s fault!
There I said it three time and clicked my heals can we end this war now.


And here we see Zelinski come the US and lecture the president “publically” about what they don’t understand.

Tell me which of those are better examples of exercising wizdom and statecraft.

The drowning man tells the man in the dock no I won’t grab onto the ring and rope. Well all drowned if you don’t jump in and rescue me personally
Yeah how’s that work out.
 
DarkNoon said:
If you're Germany, Poland, Taiwan, South Korea, or Japan right now, you should probably assume the U.S. is an unreliable ally and try to get your own nuclear deterrent.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1895542528956666109
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Funfact: As a German, i would say we should have done this before (ok, no Nukes but conventional). We should also have an Army, a Economy and functional Security Sector.
 
OReid said:
Well Trump addressed that issue. What do you want me to say publicly Putin is a murder , and then turn around and try and have a discussion with him about ending the war.


Why at this point in this war is everyone so fricking obsessed with assigning blame. Rather that actually trying to fine solution.
That right there is where the real hubris lies.

Putin’s fault, Putin’s fault, Putin’s fault!
There I said it three time and clicked my heals can we end this war now.


And here we see Zelinski come the US and lecture the president “publically” about what they don’t understand.

Tell me which of those are better examples of exercising wizdom and statecraft.

The drowning man tells the man in the dock no I won’t grab onto the ring and rope. Well all drowned if you don’t jump in and rescue me personally
Yeah how’s that work out.
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He wanted some kind of guarantees in tandem with the mineral deal, because otherwise he's just selling his country's resources. Can Putin be trusted with the deal he made in 19? How the Russian foreign department lied the Ukrainians to their faces before the invasion? There's also Trump claiming his country is falling over and over and that he should be incredibly grateful for them to even allow him there. It is, but it's arguably slower than Russia at this pace. And what's he supposed to say anyway? "Pretty please with sugar on top, can you please don't give Russia the green light to annex all the territories they've claimed including what they're not occupying? Please don't reward hideous war crimes and a ridocoulsly one sided peace which is the signals you give us when you're talking to our enemy behind our back about peace talks?"
 
This meeting will go down in history as a moment when America lost its world dominance and prosperity.
Favoring Putin and letting the continent of your ancestors suffocate is not only shortsighted, but will also bring an end to trade, investment, security of the Western world in America.
 
What a show!! The Europians hoped they could go back to bed, but have to wake up now. If they take it serious and start to build up their war productions, they could have it up and running in 2-5 years time. ( like covid 19 crisis, trained manpower and structure would be an issue though ). If Ukraine had elections, Zelenski would be reelected again because of this. So I predict that the Europians would be able to give Ukraine the security guarantees in 2-5 years. Europians gonna buy conventional weapons from US ( the old used equipment ) and give it to Ukraine, while also putting more money into their military production, so they can continue the war. 2-5 years is a long hurtfull way for Russia to continue, depending if US continues its embargo. ( until now they have stretched the timeline another year - maybe they want to see if Putin is ready for peace talks after, when he is in a more dire situation )
 
Erecon said:
What a show!! The Europians hoped they could go back to bed, but have to wake up now. If they take it serious and start to build up their war productions, they could have it up and running in 2-5 years time. ( like covid 19 crisis, trained manpower and structure would be an issue though ). If Ukraine had elections, Zelenski would be reelected again because of this. So I predict that the Europians would be able to give Ukraine the security guarantees in 2-5 years. Europians gonna buy conventional weapons from US ( the old used equipment ) and give it to Ukraine, while also putting more money into their military production, so they can continue the war. 2-5 years is a long hurtfull way for Russia to continue, depending if US continues its embargo. ( until now they have stretched the timeline another year - maybe they want to see if Putin is ready for peace talks after, when he is in a more dire situation )
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Well, let's hope they do wake up now. We have take Action now, best yesterday. The sooner, the better. And we have to solve inner Problems also. Might be a hard work :/
 
alphaecho said:
Increasingly obvious they invited him to Washington to humiliate him. This is theatre for the benefit of their base and of course a suddenly very happy man in Moscow.


https://twitter.com/x/status/1895529810253996192
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Well I guess the true wives of the free world came out to play. What a disgraceful way to conduct diplomacy, regardless of how you feel about Zelenskyy, He is throwing trash on those that have died to protect Ukraine and the rest of Europe. Vance needs to have a soul check and see a frontline trench with no casevac. Sure would have been great for Ukraine to receive F-16s from 2016-2020 but look at that. He could have prevented this war, he didn't. And him and his cronies are doing a despicable thing trying to berate a president who when the positions reversed, would've already sold the keys to satan and conceded land and concessions to Russia. Trumps not a fighter, he's a bully with a loud mouth who wields power from places of pure corruption and also has a spine of jelly. No different than Neville Chamberlain IMHO
 
alphaecho said:
Polish President Andrzej Duda:Poland is ready to deploy on its territory all US troops currently deployed in Germany.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1894366112881451187


Poland is ready to deploy on its territory all US troops currently deployed in Germany, Polish President Andrzej Duda said in an interview with the Polsat TV channel.Earlier, U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance announced a possible review of the U.S. military presence in Germany.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1894365103216083376
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Not that Trump would do that but damn. Nice.
 
Peter Griffin said:
No different than Neville Chamberlain IMHO
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The biggest difference is that chamberlain and the UK didn’t send Czechoslovakia hundreds of billions of weapons and never spoke to them at any point during negotiation. Czechoslovakia also had zero means to keep fighting after the agreement was signed. Also, the Russians and Trump will never be able to reach an agreement to end the war because both sides have too big of an ego. The Trump administration is being stupid but I hate this parallel.
 
Snowfall said:
hate this parallel.
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Only two people to blame. Trump & Putin of course above all who started this unwarranted, unprovoked, pointless war of land grabs.

Russia will never feel safe until it controls all of Europe. So save me the piss poor Russian appeasement propoganda about NATO which has never forced anyone to join. 🥱
 
Snowfall said:
The biggest difference is that chamberlain and the UK didn’t send Czechoslovakia hundreds of billions of weapons and never spoke to them at any point during negotiation. Czechoslovakia also had zero means to keep fighting after the agreement was signed. Also, the Russians and Trump will never be able to reach an agreement to end the war because both sides have too big of an ego. The Trump administration is being stupid but I hate this parallel.
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I'm only comparing them in their willingness to stick to their values in spite of perceived detente. Not in their actions, in that instance you are correct.
 
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