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'Fitness' of The President

william said:
When it comes to the 25th congress could form a committee of five. Two from the left, two from the right and one from the middle to administer or oversee any cognitive test. There are quite a few members of congress with PHDs. Any recommendation to the full congress has to be unanimous.

The same system could also be set up at the state, county and city level for the recommendation of any public official.
Just a thought. 🤔
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The process for the involuntary removal of a president is always going to be political.

There is a constitutional process for removal for fitness. And it involves first and foremost the members of the cabinet and VP, then potentially Congress.

Those individuals who have been appointed by the elected Individual by the people.
Individuals who were selected by the elected president and approved by bi-partisan committees of the legislature.

So all this hand wringing and posturing is for nothing. The process is first and foremost delegated to the cabinet and the VP.

“The power to remove short of impeachment” is delegated to the elected presidents cabinet and VP”
THE POWER OF REMOVAL FOR FITNESS rest solely with the appointees of the elected presidents cabinet and VP.
Congress may appoint such body to determine if a president is unfit.
Which can immediately be vetoed by the executive. Requiring a 2/3’s vote again from Congress to override.


NO WHERE DOES OUR CONSTITUTION propose a panel of experts deciding if a president is no longer fit to serve. It ambiguously framed and whatever group of specialist is convened. They’re considered opinion is still and always will be subordinate to the legal and political process.

Of course none of this says the cabinet members or the VP cannot consult and get medical or psychiatric advice for determination.
But this is not required or that ANY power is left with experts to initiate the removal of the president.

Removal will always be political, no where in the affairs of man will we ever escape political negotiations or concessions. Experts can weight in but their determinations are always subordinate to the cabinet members and the VP’s of the elected President. Or a 2/3’s vote of Congress.
Which short of Caligula level behavior will never happen.


And it is this way because involuntary removal of a President would ALWAYS be a political action, experts opinion damned.
The writers and voters of the 25th amendment knew it would always be a political process irregardless of expert testimony.

Just as in the fable of the Emperors New Clothes. A child ( the voter or elected representative) who was either guileless or impertinent enough to tell the truth.
The “experts” were sycophants to someone or thing and proven untrustworthye
 
teekay99 said:
But arguably it did not represent the will of the people. It merely satisfied Constitutional requirements. But this argument occurred already and I landed on the conclusion that we should use another measure for keeping or removing a President.
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Another measure? Would you like to amend the 25th?

I know it is Ugly and leaves all kinds a holes.
again this is political, this myth, that we can create some technocracy where experts dutifully administer the affairs of state that are free of free of politics.


A state free of political fights and struggle, is a state that has relinquished the sovereignty of the people to experts, king's, or Satraps.
 
Publius said:
Another measure? Would you like to amend the 25th?

I know it is Ugly and leaves all kinds a holes.
again this is political, this myth, that we can create some technocracy where experts dutifully administer the affairs of state that are free of free of politics.


A state free of political fights and struggle, is a state that has relinquished the sovereignty of the people to experts, king's, or Satraps.
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😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
True communism, 😂🤔
 
Publius said:
have we ever considered “whom” President Trump is speaking to?
He’s speaking to the sycophants of the IDGC and Ayatollah’s
Contrast how they deliver public declarations to President Trumps declarations.

For us it’s apocalyptic. for the IRGC and its adherents it’s how transactions and negotiations are carried out.

Does no one remember from StarTrek how much effort and purpose had to be used to communicate to alien races?
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I think with Trump, his translater is broken, new one next Tuesday
 
This repeating pulse, 46 years , 1979,

Would someone tell us Iranian history, cause and effect, who was the control of say oil, who oversaw and ran expansion projects,prior to the evil IRG, lets make it easy,
start from1950,
Who had more influence, was there corruption before? after?
A president needs to be knowing the totality of a situation, otherwise the indivusl is using tunnel vision,
Not a wonder why the Canadians🇨🇦 came to the rescue.,

🤔💵💵💵💵💵💵
 
Lostpuppy said:
This repeating pulse, 46 years , 1979,

Would someone tell us Iranian history, cause and effect, who was the control of say oil, who oversaw and ran expansion projects,prior to the evil IRG, lets make it easy,
start from1950,
Who had more influence, was there corruption before? after?
A president needs to be knowing the totality of a situation, otherwise the indivusl is using tunnel vision,
Not a wonder why the Canadians🇨🇦 came to the rescue.,

🤔💵💵💵💵💵💵
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Said a lot there none of it very clear or well explained.
Reason or gotcha post
 
Publius said:
Said a lot there none of it very clear or well explained.
Reason or gotcha post
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Publius said:
Said a lot there none of it very clear or well explained.
Reason or gotcha post
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a simple challenge,( reason,)

simple study of history?
For clarity, I was asking if some one would clarify, sort of like history.
Yes you are right , i was not clear😂

Study the geopolitical history of Iran
1950 to now,

Our media quotes only 46 years of geopolitical history,
I ask if someone would expand on the history at question,as a war is happening over it.( apparently hslted as we doeak)

We have some really brilliant minds here and our guests might wish to know the context of 46 years expanded

I dont do gotchya posts unless there is a tactical rational, enough people do it to themselves already.
You are the one who challenged me to ask questions🤔

The element of fitness of any given leader, could be considered an ability to correlate, collect , rationslize and balance global information to make rational decisions for the people he/her leads without bringing senseless harm to those peoples who entrusted him/her to lead.

🌟🌟🌟
 
Lostpuppy said:
a simple challenge,( reason,)

simple study of history?
For clarity, I was asking if some one would clarify, sort of like history.
Yes you are right , i was not clear😂

Study the geopolitical history of Iran
1950 to now,

Our media quotes only 46 years of geopolitical history,
I ask if someone would expand on the history at question,as a war is happening over it.( apparently hslted as we doeak)

We have some really brilliant minds here and our guests might wish to know the context of 46 years expanded

I dont do gotchya posts unless there is a tactical rational, enough people do it to themselves already.
You are the one who challenged me to ask questions🤔

The element of fitness of any given leader, could be considered an ability to correlate, collect , rationslize and balance global information to make rational decisions for the people he/her leads without bringing senseless harm to those peoples who entrusted him/her to lead.

🌟🌟🌟
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Yeah I got those questions and implied proposals. They were just vague and unformed with dozens of implications and potentials.

In total, an expression of a feeling not a reasoned laid out proposal
 
From a Florida Sheriff

​





Polk County Sheriff's Office (Sheriff Grady Judd) ·​

I tolerate my democrat friends and family but, you see it your way and I see it my way. I'm not you and you're not me.
You see Trump's arrogance, I see Trump's confidence. You see Trump's nationalism, I see Trump's patriotism. You hear Trump's unsophisticated words, I hear Trump's honesty. You see Trump's racism, I see Trump's words being misconstrued and twisted by the media daily to fit their narrative. You see Trump as a Republican, I see Trump as a Patriot. You see Trump as a dictator, I see Trump as a leader.
You see Trump as an Authoritarian, I see Trump as the only one willing to fight for our freedoms. You see Trump as childish, I see Trump as a fighter, unwilling to cave in to the lies. You see Trump as an unpolished politician, I see Trump as a breath of fresh air. You think Trump hates immigrants, l know Trump is married to an immigrant. You see Trump putting an end to immigration in America, I see Trump welcoming immigrants to America LEGALLY. You see Trump's cages at the border, I see Obama's cages at the border. You see Trump with a struggling economy, I see Trump with an amazing economy until the Democrats shut it down. You see the violence in the streets and call it "Trump's America", I see the violence in the streets of Democratic run cities who have refused Trump's help and call it "Leftist America." You wanted someone more Presidential, I'm happy we HAVE someone who finally doesn't just talk the talk but actually walks the walk. You and I? We see things very differently! And that's OK!! (I can accept your view without violence or hatred and calm discussions,without name calling or screaming. With some exceptions, I am not perfect)

I agree 100%!
 
This reminded me of a post in the Humour section.

Your Candidate flip-flops on the issues
My Candidate has redefined his position.

Your Candidate panders to lunatic fringe groups.
My Candidate reaches out to disenfranchised voters.

Your Candidate shamelessly takes contributions from lobbyists and favour-seeking corporations.
My Candidate believes all Americans have the right to participate in the political process.

Your Candidate surrounds himself with bootlicking toadies.
My Candidate puts together a team that shares his dream for a better America.

Your Candidate mumbles weasle-like rationalizations when confronted his his drinking and womanizing past.
My Candidate admits to "youthful indiscretions".

Your Candidate stonewalls the press.
My Candidate reserves the right not to disclose information that could jeapordize the national interest.

Your Candidate waffles on the issues.
My Candidate sees the merits of both sides of the argument.

Your Candidate will pack the courts with judicial hacks who'll rubberstamp his extremist agenda.
My Candidate will handpick eminent jurists whose rulings reflect the will of the American people.

Your Candidate sucks up to blacks, Latinos, and Asians to get their votes.
My Candidate works to bring minorities into the mainstream.

Your Candidate smears his opponent with vicious lies and personal attacks.
My Candidate simply wants to set the record straight.
 
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DEFCON Warning System said:
I don't think it is. Too many people with agendas making wild, unverified claims parroted by news outlets who have an axe to grind.

No way a President was "kept out of" the Situation Room.
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Right. I forgot Trump is above reproach and any media story against him is Fake News. Y'all let me know when we hit DEFCON 2, k?
 
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RiffRaff said:
Right. I forgot Trump is above reproach and any media story against him is Fake News. Y'all let me know when we hit DEFCON 2, k?
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I think Trump is a bezerker President who is prone to fits of rage and lets his ego get the better of him.

Does that sound like someone who thinks Trump is above reproach?

I also think it isn't based in reality that a President was kept out of the Situation Room against his will.

I'd say that about Biden even though the guy was mentally unfit.

What you're suggesting is a soft coup. That didn't happen.
 
I can't imagine a President being kept out of the Situation Room when he wants to be in it, especially one with the ego of President Trump. Given his propensity to air grievances on social media, if it did happen, I would expect Trump to rant about despicable people online.

That said, there are different types of mental unfitness. President Biden's seemed to be age-related mental decline. IMO, Trump shows signs of egotistical narcissism. We were willing to explore Biden's potential unfitness. We must be willing to explore Trump's mental concerns.

From Google:
"Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a mental health condition characterized by a long-term pattern of grandiosity, an excessive need for admiration, and a profound lack of empathy. Individuals with NPD often appear arrogant, manipulative, and entitled, exploiting others to maintain a fragile self-esteem and a sense of superiority."
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
I think Trump is a bezerker President who is prone to fits of rage and lets his ego get the better of him.

Does that sound like someone who thinks Trump is above reproach?

I also think it isn't based in reality that a President was kept out of the Situation Room against his will.

I'd say that about Biden even though the guy was mentally unfit.

What you're suggesting is a soft coup. That didn't happen.
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You can't say that it didn't happen with any more certainty than I can say it did. Neither of us was actually there. I am also not ruling out a soft coup in the United States because this country is in completely uncharted political and Constitutional territory, and IMH, anything is possible right now.

That being said, if I could get anyone past the paywall to the original article, the story was phrased in such a way to indicate that he was strongly encouraged by aides and others to stay out of the SitRoom, and they had to promise him updates by the minute in order to do it. He wasn't kept out by armed Marines. Still, that speaks to his state of mind, and I would like to know how his aides are going to stop him from ordering a nuclear launch during one of his temper tantrums.
 
RiffRaff said:
That being said, if I could get anyone past the paywall to the original article, the story was phrased in such a way to indicate that he was strongly encouraged by aides and others to stay out of the SitRoom, and they had to promise him updates by the minute in order to do it.
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I can see that, the berserker he is. I read an article that suggested such.

and I would like to know how his aides are going to stop him from ordering a nuclear launch during one of his temper tantrums.
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He can order it. Follow through might be a problem.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
He can order it. Follow through might be a problem.
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That's what I meant, but still, even giving the order is risky. If Russia were to find out that a launch order was given but was having problems filtering down through the chain of command, wouldn't they immediately put all of their nuclear forces on highest alert status, perhaps even launch preemptively?
 
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