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UA-RU-NATO War & Ukraine Peace Talks | Discussions

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Putin wants to show that his re-emerging empire can put its foot on the west in a trophy image of sorts. Even a deal that would have been greatly one sided wasn't good enough. Heck even if the current leadership drank printer ink and said 'Let them have Ukraine' that would not be good enough. It's not about Ukraine. It's about demonstrating you can take what the other person has. And the strength and prestige is in the act of taking. It shows your power and virility. In other words for you Martin fans, Putin pays the Iron Price for what he wants. And what he wants has no value if the other side wants him to have it. It is about seeing what they want and making sure they get the exact opposite. In abundance.
 
WD_Gaster said:
Putin wants to show that his re-emerging empire can put its foot on the west in a trophy image of sorts. Even a deal that would have been greatly one sided wasn't good enough. Heck even if the current leadership drank printer ink and said 'Let them have Ukraine' that would not be good enough. It's not about Ukraine. It's about demonstrating you can take what the other person has. And the strength and prestige is in the act of taking. It shows your power and virility. In other words for you Martin fans, Putin pays the Iron Price for what he wants. And what he wants has no value if the other side wants him to have it. It is about seeing what they want and making sure they get the exact opposite. In abundance.
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Putin is alarmingly basic and comes from a place where that's considered a virtue. So even if the man were to vanish in a puff of magic smoke one morning you'd still have a problem: Russians are conditioned to only follow and respect men like him. They will look out at those they consider weaker and see opportunities. They will do this no matter who is at the helm. The word 'orc' is thrown around as an insult but it's actually chillingly closer to the truth. They take. They do not create. Their own creatives don't live that long. So the empire (Which has had many incarnations) will enter a period of dormancy every few decades to test the waters via a long game and decide who is going to get the Stick(tm) And the only thing that will make them pause is a very firm stance showing them what 'or else' means. In a perverse way they respect that. So the idea of 'diplomacy' with the Russians is baffling. Try negotiating with a nest of yellowjackets and ask them politely yet firmly to leave. Hand them documents to sign. See how well that works out. Regan understood that! Why do you think he said the things he did?
 
WD_Gaster said:
Putin is alarmingly basic and comes from a place where that's considered a virtue. So even if the man were to vanish in a puff of magic smoke one morning you'd still have a problem: Russians are conditioned to only follow and respect men like him. They will look out at those they consider weaker and see opportunities. They will do this no matter who is at the helm. The word 'orc' is thrown around as an insult but it's actually chillingly closer to the truth. They take. They do not create. Their own creatives don't live that long. So the empire (Which has had many incarnations) will enter a period of dormancy every few decades to test the waters via a long game and decide who is going to get the Stick(tm) And the only thing that will make them pause is a very firm stance showing them what 'or else' means. In a perverse way they respect that. So the idea of 'diplomacy' with the Russians is baffling. Try negotiating with a nest of yellowjackets and ask them politely yet firmly to leave. Hand them documents to sign. See how well that works out. Regan understood that! Why do you think he said the things he did?
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You negotiate with yellow jackets by being calm, trying not to irritate them don’t disrupt the area near their nest.
Oh and carrying two quarts of gasoline and a torch.
See the analogy there?
We’ve been lighting small fires around the nest but it’s clear we’re too chicken to throw gas on the nest.
So until then we might as well just make nice and let them have that part of the pasture.
 
DarkNoon said:
Knowing Trump I am sure it does and gives Russia everything or rewards Putins behavior.
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From what has currently been said about the agreement, it says the US gets 50% of mineral revenue and 50% of any future mineral revenue, plus right of first refusal of said minerals.

Says nothing about rewarding Putin. In fact, it specifically excludes Russia from benefiting from reconstruction in Ukraine.
 
DarkNoon said:
The Russian government on Monday released a US citizen that had been detained on charges of possession of a small amount of marijuana, ahead of talks between Russian and US officials in Saudi Arabia, the New York Times reported.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1891671276525154596
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Obviously to manipulate trump in the upcoming talks. Because as Kamala showed us it is very easy to manipulate Trump.
 
Irag8er said:
www.pravda.com.ua

Europe may deploy up to 30,000 troops to Ukraine, WP reports

The potential size of a military contingent that Europe could send to Ukraine to oversee a possible ceasefire is estimated at 25,000 to 30,000 troops.
www.pravda.com.ua www.pravda.com.ua

*Consider the source*
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This door of a multilateral European peacekeeping force has been thrown wide open. I’m not sure but my hunch is it is a security bone for Ukraine, which they need and deserve.
And a PR bone for Putin, not a nato force!, but there are going to be European peace keepers in Ukraine.

Pretty much what Sec Def said.

Ah … “the art of the deal…”
 
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DarkNoon said:
Fact check: nearly 70 percent of US money for Ukraine actually went to US defense industry to replenish the stocks of OLD stuff that went to Ukraine to use.

Much of which we would have paid to destroy as their lifespan expired..
https://twitter.com/x/status/1891169435936854390
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That’s nice and I’m not being particularly sarcastic when I say that.
But it is still not a workable plan to win a war. If this was the logic in supporting Ukraine these last three years. It is fucking criminal!
 
European peace keepers in Ukraine is about as believable as Ukraine winning the conflict.
I knew Ukraine couldn't win from the start. I seriously doubt Putin will allow European peace keepers in Ukraine either . Then again 25-30,000 isn't many so who knows, I still seriously doubt it.
 
WD_Gaster said:
Putin wants to show that his re-emerging empire can put its foot on the west in a trophy image of sorts. Even a deal that would have been greatly one sided wasn't good enough. Heck even if the current leadership drank printer ink and said 'Let them have Ukraine' that would not be good enough. It's not about Ukraine. It's about demonstrating you can take what the other person has. And the strength and prestige is in the act of taking. It shows your power and virility. In other words for you Martin fans, Putin pays the Iron Price for what he wants. And what he wants has no value if the other side wants him to have it. It is about seeing what they want and making sure they get the exact opposite. In abundance.
Click to expand...
The focus of what is power and how to wield it is totally different for Putin’s Russia.
So you’re correct I think, he needs a demonstrable win. He has won the battle of attrition. In part because we fought it the wrong way.
It’s just me and it is after the fact so for what it’s worth.
We should have mobilized and landed thousands of troops and equipment in the Baltics, Poland, and Romania. As well as very public bomber flights all across eastern NATO round the clock. Not just B-52’s every once and awhile. But B-1’s and B-2’s as well.
This is an after the fact suggestion on my part though for what it’s worth.

If Putin balks or simply demands too much then this should be the response.
Para Bellum


What I have learned about east/west conflict upon reflection over these past three years and contrasting it to the Reagan era.
IF the American public and press are not losing their minds about risk of war with Russia. Then Russia knows we’re not going to do shit!
Except throw money at it.
 
Yingyang said:
European peace keepers in Ukraine is about as believable as Ukraine winning the conflict.
I knew Ukraine couldn't win from the start. I seriously doubt Putin will allow European peace keepers in Ukraine either . Then again 25-30,000 isn't many so who knows, I still seriously doubt it.
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No it isn’t. The Trump admin has put it on the table.
Putin needs something to claim victory at home.
Ukraine needs some semblance of security.
With or without article five the US will not let the war spread into eastern NATO nations. Which is likely the ones to send real troops numbers.

Which of course is why he will try and wait till there is another incontinent leader in Washington to try again.
 
OReid said:
No it isn’t. The Trump admin has put it on the table.
Putin needs something to claim victory at home.
Ukraine needs some semblance of security.
With or without article five the US will not let the war spread into eastern NATO nations. Which is likely the ones to send real troops numbers.

Which of course is why he will try and wait till there is another incontinent leader in Washington to try again.
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Putin has never had interest in nato countries. He has never wanted conflict with nato countries. He has no interest in war with nato full stop. He has been in power over 2 decades.
That alone proved he isn't a madman with nukes and proves he doesn't want conflict with nato. In his time as leader nato countries have expanded closer even before Ukraine conflict. During Ukraine conflict more countries joined closer again to Russia yet still no agression no military action against those latest members. All the reason all the opportunity and yet nothing. Ukraine is a bigger picture for him as a threat simply due to ports and length of shared border. Only Ukraine is his real concern especially when it comes to nato membership. He doesn't and never has wanted conflict with Europe especially nato countries the proof is historical and present.
War mongers and people trapped in time are the ones generally suffering that stupid mindset obviously ignoring the facts that over 2 decades have proved . Putin doesn't need to claim shit for his people, the evidence exists already. War with a country backed by the west for yrs that for Ukraine and the west achieving bugger all while Russia holds its own . Annexation of Ukraine territories holding the largest Russian populations to protect those majority russian populations. That is more than enough to please the people.
Of which majority X- Ukrainian rare earth minerals were located. Anyway fact is Trump will have a hard time as Putin knows he has the upper hand.
 
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Ben Dhyani said:
www.telegraph.co.uk

Revealed: Trump’s confidential plan to put Ukraine in a stranglehold

Panic in Kyiv as US president demands higher share of GDP than Germany’s First World War reparations
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

Revealed: Trump’s confidential plan to put Ukraine in a stranglehold​

Donald Trump’s demand for a $500bn (£400bn) “payback” from Ukraine goes far beyond US control over the country’s critical minerals. It covers everything from ports and infrastructure to oil and gas, and the larger resource base of the country.

The terms of the contract that landed at Volodymyr Zelensky’s office a week ago amount to the US economic colonisation of Ukraine, in legal perpetuity. It implies a burden of reparations that cannot possibly be achieved. The document has caused consternation and panic in Kyiv.

The Telegraph has obtained a draft of the pre-decisional contract, marked “Privileged & Confidential’ and dated Feb 7 2025. It states that the US and Ukraine should form a joint investment fund to ensure that “hostile parties to the conflict do not benefit from the reconstruction of Ukraine”.
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Relax. It’s Trump. First he has you claws out stuck to the ceiling, then he gives you day old meow mix, and everything‘s better. It was never serious. It’s just a starting position in negotiations.
 
Yingyang said:
Putin has never had interest in nato countries. He has never wanted conflict with nato countries. He has no interest in war with nato full stop. He has been in power over 2 decades.
That alone proved he isn't a madman with nukes and proves he doesn't want conflict with nato. In his time as leader nato countries have expanded closer even before Ukraine conflict. During Ukraine conflict more countries joined closer again to Russia yet still no agression no military action against those latest members. All the reason all the opportunity and yet nothing. Ukraine is a bigger picture for him as a threat simply due to ports and length of shared border. Only Ukraine is his real concern especially when it comes to nato membership. He doesn't and never has wanted conflict with Europe especially nato countries the proof is historical and present.
War mongers and people trapped in time are the ones generally suffering that stupid mindset obviously ignoring the facts that over 2 decades have proved . Putin doesn't need to claim shit for his people, the evidence exists already. War with a country backed by the west for yrs that for Ukraine and the west achieving bugger all while Russia holds its own . Annexation of Ukraine territories holding the largest Russian populations to protect those majority russian populations. That is more than enough to please the people.
Of which majority X- Ukrainian rare earth minerals were located. Anyway fact is Trump will have a hard time as Putin knows he has the upper hand.
Click to expand...
When Nato was united? Of course he wouldn't want a war, it'd result in escalation that could mean nuclear war and the destruction of Russia. If you haven't ignored his comments about returning "rightfully Russian land" in Ukraine that's not about the NATO expansion it's very similar to comments made by previous Russian imperial Tsars about the Baltics, Poland, and even Sweden back in the day. If he had a chance to get leverage over Eastern Europe, he would. Or do you think the symbolism of Imperial Russia and the Soviet Union is just for show? Part of it might be, but the language around spheres of influence and historical territory is the same that Russia has always used when it wants to expand. If Sweden and Finland hadn't joined NATO there would have been a real chance it would have gone after Gotland. Plus, Ukraine is a similar enough culture living aligned to the west, which will always be a threat to Putin, especially if Ukraine has the chance to turn into a stable and healthy democracy well integrated with the west. NATO is simply a means of a guarantee of Russia not invading to prevent that, because Ukraine prospering is a signal to the Russians that there is an alternative to the authoritarianism they have been living under for so long, which in turn is a threat to Putin's power. As long as a democratic independent Ukraine exists it will be a problem for Putin that he wants to solve, either by installing a new Porochenko or invading later if there are no security guarantees for the west. A NATO membership isn't a threat to Russia, just a threat to Putin's rule since it means that a democratic nation which similarish culture and cultural exchange can exist unchallenged and might cause the previously politically apathetic population to see that there are alternatives.
 
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